Laser or not?

[Shaky]

"The recent marketing attempts to sell laser pointers for pistols should be viewed askance. We tested such devices here at the Ranch some years ago when they were much more expensive than they are now, and we discovered that the principle disadvantage of the laser is that it is slow. When you present a pistol properly and pick up the flash sight-picture, you do it in one smooth stroke. When, on the other hand, you present a laser-equipped pistol you must hunt around for that orange dot on the target, which takes more time than the acquisition of the flash sight picture. The time increment between the two systems is admittedly slight, but one wonders why one should install an expensive gadget in order to create a slight disadvantage."

Jeff Cooper's Commentaries
Previously Gunsite Gossip
Vol. 1, No. 3 1 July 1993

 

[Manco]

Posts 4 & 5 provide a pretty good explanation. Focus your training on iron sights, but feel free to use the laser as an aide and as a backup.

As a training aid they can be very useful, but I question using lasers as a backup or in conjunction with iron sights. For those who can use iron sights proficiently, which for most people takes a good deal of productive practice, they would be a distraction--just use the iron sights (preferably illuminated sights which may help in some low-light conditions).

The only good "tactical" use for lasers that I'm aware of (except perhaps for any psychological effects it may have) is for novice shooters or those with certain vision issues who may shoot better with lasers as long as they ignore the iron sights.

 

[Sam1911]

The only "tactical" use for lasers that I'm aware of is for novice shooters or those with certain vision issues who may shoot better with lasers as long as they ignore the iron sights.

Actually, the professional trainer who studied this issue in great depth informed me of another one that is about as "tactical" as it gets. In situations where extensive tactical protective gear is being worn or carried it may not be easy to obtain a traditional sight picture. A laser may be a very practical answer to that question. Further, equipping members with lasers of different colors helps team members avoid confusion and cross-firing as the normal eye-hand coordination functions are disrupted when the firearm is not aimed/pointed from the usual eye level.

 

[Manco]

Actually, the professional trainer who studied this issue in great depth informed me of another one that is about as "tactical" as it gets. In situations where extensive tactical protective gear is being worn or carried it may not be easy to obtain a traditional sight picture. A laser may be a very practical answer to that question.

Interesting. Although it was not what I had in mind when I said "vision issues" this is kind of one in the sense that they can't obtain a traditional sight picture. Maybe "physical issues" would cover all the possibilities better...well, there are also things like shooting from retention, which lasers seem to be good for, so maybe it's anything that precludes a traditional sight picture, then.

 

[Sam1911]

there are also things like shooting from retention, which lasers seem to be good for...

Meh. If I'm shooting from retention, I'm not taking the time to try to find an aiming dot.

When shooting from retention you're too close to need any sight indication at all, and you're most probably way too close to be able to see that dot anyway.

If you're shooting from a retention position and you're more than a step or so away from the target, you've missed the point of the exercise.

 

[Manco]

Meh. If I'm shooting from retention, I'm not taking the time to try to find an aiming dot.

When shooting from retention you're too close to need any sight indication at all, and you're most probably way too close to be able to see that dot anyway.

Understood, but I've seen people miss the paper from 7 yards or closer while using sights, so that's the standard I had in mind. I guess it's pointless, so I'll take it back--there's no point in finding excuses just to use a doodad.

If you're shooting from a retention position and you're more than a step or so away from the target, you've missed the point of the exercise.

I tend to shoot from retention a bit farther out than most people would suggest (as far as my accuracy will take me) because I usually have multiple attackers in mind (who may not all be in front of me in some scenarios). I'll use whatever stance is necessary to achieve sufficient accuracy, of course, but I prefer to keep my gun close whenever possible. I also use a modified sight picture with the gun a bit lower than eye level because it obstructs my vision less and allows me to acquire targets faster. That said, I point-shoot at most distances these days. When starting out a couple of years ago, I would have rolled my eyes at everything I just said, by the way, but I'm a far superior shooter than I was back then, so something must be working for me. A lot of instinct must be involved, and it took a lot of practice to develop it.

Anyway, that's why I thought that maybe some novices could make use of a laser for shooting from retention. If people only do that when an attacker is practically on top of them, then never mind.