Laser Sights - Crimson Trace™

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Hi

Do any of you guys have any experience with the crimson trace grips/laser sights or the sights from Lasermax? do they make you hit the middle of the target? :what:
 
Crimson Trace work real good and stay put.

But they are no substitute for bad shooting.
 
The middle? Remember, bullets have a trajectory and laser manufacturers will tell you to sight in and adjust them for a known distance. I know Crimsom Trace is adjustable, but I don't remember if Lasermax is (and I have both).

Where you hit depends on your skill. They're great for firearms instructor as they can watch the student flinch when the light bobs up and down.
 
I had a set on my P229 and they were very effective. I only had a few complaints about them. Number one is that the beam lines up exactly where your right-handed trigger finger should be when not firing - alongside the frame. Also, the rubber grips were very secure and comfortable but tended to catch my shirts, jackets, etc when carried concealed.
I would like to try the lasermax site when I have the money to spend.
Also, as was said above, they are no replacement for poor shooting and trigger control.

Good shooting!
 
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Its accurate at the range you set it but it reaches a threshold. For instance the laser will be dead on at 15ft but if you try to shoot with the laser grip at 50ft its going to be off.
 
The advantage of laser grips is that they allow you to focus on the threat rather than on your sights. You still have to index properly to get the laser dot on the target, but with training they are very effective. One place where they do shine (pun intended) is when you are shooting from awkward positions and under circumstances where acquiring a sight picture is impossible. That said, as other posters have mentioned, they are not precision targeting devices but good rough indicators of point of impact. Off by 2 inches at 15 meters with a handgun is still good enough for practical purposes.
 
I have one of each.

I have Crimson Trace (the grip kind) on my snubbie. It provides extra options. It can be blocked by your trigger finger alongside the gun.

I have a LaserMax unit for a Glock 17, which I don't keep on the gun. Replacing factory internal parts makes me nervous, and I prefer the constant on laser to the flashing kind that Lasermax has. But it makes a good training tool. It has come on a few times while shooting without my turning it on, but I've never had the gun fail.
 
I have Crimson Trace on my carry gun.
I really like them and will always have them.
You will hear from a lot of people that they are not a replacement for practice and that is true.
Read about Crimson Trace, the company and you will find they are a very reputable
and will stand behind their product.
Even replacing those damaged in Iraq.
If they want to send me a free pair for the endorsement I need another set for my 686. :D
AC
 
Might wanna read the thread below? (Mine is post #6)
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=334706

I went with LaserMax on my P229R and XD40 SC for the following (MAIN) reasons:
1. Closer to bore center
2. Kinda like operating the laser with the support hand (worried about "Sympathetic Finger Reflex" if operating laser and trigger with the same hand).

Thought I liked the idea of operating the laser with the trigger hand until I did a little more research.

Also, since the Crimson Trace is not on bore center, the POI is only going to intersect the laser at one range/point. 'Course this is technically true of the LaserMax also, but the LaserMax is only going to be off vertically, not horizontally as with the Crimson Trace.
I'd rather adjust my aim vertically than horizontally if you're trying to use it for longer distances.
 
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Its accurate at the range you set it but it reaches a threshold. For instance the laser will be dead on at 15ft but if you try to shoot with the laser grip at 50ft its going to be off
That's true even for iron sights
 
I would not say so my guns iron sights tend to work the same short or long range. Personaly I dont like lasers and shoot better with iron sights. My mother likes her crimson trace laser but I can shoot better with the low profile iron sights. Just not a laser person I guess.
 
I have crimson trace laser on my smith M60 and sighted it in at about 40ft works great going to get some for some more pistols i have .
 
I use Lasermax sights on my Glock and they are really outstanding. My wife bought a S&W 642 w/ crimson grips and that seems to work really well also.

If I HAD to choose I would go with the Lasermax as the pulsating light is super bright and really easy to see. But if you were going to throw a can on your pistol then crimson grips (or under mount light) is your best option.

:)
 
I've got CT lasergrips on my S&W J frame, my Glock 26 and my Glock 29 and I've got nothing but good to say about them. I first put them on the J frame as a training aid for my SO (she was shooting consistently low to the right) and because the gun has such abbreviated sights, but I fell in love with them myself and then added them to my G29 within a few weeks and about 6 months later to my G26 as well.

Once you get some trigger time with them and start to realize, and utilize, the capabilities they offer you won't want to carry a gun without them.

And I'm the guy who 5 years ago was still swearing I'd never own a plastic frame gun or laser sights...now I swear by both. Of course I can remember 25 years ago swearing I'd never own an aluminum frame gun too.
 
Keep in mind that the CTC grips are not designed for bullseye competitions. They are designed for fast and accurate target acquisition under stressful conditons (self defense). In any situation where you can't get a traditional sight picture you will still be able to hit the target with a CTC grip.

As for the point of aim issue, the CTC laser diode is on the right hand side of the gun and a tad below the barrel axis. The grips are set from the factory at 50 feet and are fully adjustable if you want to change the intersection point. The Lasermax models are not adjustable. I recommend setting the grips at about 30 feet for everyday CCW carry.

A factory set grip (50 ft) will have the point of aim and point of impact hit at 50 feet. At point blank range (with POA still set for 50 feet), the point of aim will be approximately 0.5" low to the right from point of impact. At 100 feet (still set for 50 feet), the point of aim will be approximately 0.5" high and to the left of point of impact. So you're looking at about 1" of variation from 0 to 100 feet. the VAST majority of shooters can't hold a group any where close to that, especially under self defense conditions.

As to blocking the laser with your trigger finger, a little training will fix that. Practice indexing your trigger finger directly out onto the trigger guard. This will also allow you to bring your finger straight back onto the trigger when you're ready to shoot. There are people who can't reach the trigger guard or who have sausage fingers...and in those cases you'll just have to figure something out that will work for you.

The other huge advantage CTC has over the other laser systems is the "instinctive activation". When you grab the gun, the laser is turned on by your grip. The other systems require some kind of fine motor skill manipulation, which you WILL NOT be able to due in a high stress situation.

Lastly, the LM system has a fatal flaw in that WHEN it breaks (and it will) it will render your weapon useless. Replacing the factor steel guide rod in a firearm is not a good idea since it gets a lot of stress during the firing of the gun. I've had 3 Lasermax units break on me in training situations and all 3 prevented the weapon from working. It took 45 minutes to get one of the guns apart after it broke. *IF* the CTC unit fails, you still have a working firearm and can transition to your iron sights.

When you start taking advanced tactics classes the lasers *really* come in to play, allowing you to make shots you'd never be able to make without the laser. I *highly* recommend a laser on your carry/home defense gun.
 
+1 to Cacique500's remarks. I have CrimsonTrace grips on my Commander. The version I have is mostly plastic, with a rubber section that wraps over the front strap and contains the switch. This reduces "sticking" to clothing, and makes activation of the laser a natural part of gripping the pistol.

I've adjusted it to agree with the iron sights at 50 ft. Other than in bright sunlight, the CT grips offer an amazing difference in ability to acquire the target and fire a shot quickly.

I'm not worried about the trigger finger blocking the LED, as I don't want the LED on until I'm ready to fire. With some practice, you reposition your trigger finger and increase your grip at the same time, then squeeze the trigger.

Because of the offset of the LED, it is possible to lose the dot behind the barrel if you use a conventional sight picture at very close range. I found it requires lowering the pistol slightly and looking over the top of the barrel.

Practice reveals all of these problems! I would not recommend someone get a laser device and assume it is going to work under critical conditions...
 
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