mljdeckard
Member
There's a difference between having battery powered devices, and trusting your life to one in particular.
Laser sights on defensive weapons...important?
- Thread starter m_kirk2001
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The Crimson Trace Lasergrip on my Model 60 has one moving part. The batteries last a long time, and can be changed regularly just like your home smoke detector. I would be willing to bet that laser grips are much less likely to fail or malfuntion than any semi-automatic handgun, or even a revolver for that matter. In other words, the grips are more reliable than the gun they are mounted on.
It doesn't make you less of a shooter to use a laser on a defensive handgun. In a high stress situation very few will have the presence of mind to focus on the front sight and smoothly squeeze the trigger. If you get a chance, try a laser. They're great.
It doesn't make you less of a shooter to use a laser on a defensive handgun. In a high stress situation very few will have the presence of mind to focus on the front sight and smoothly squeeze the trigger. If you get a chance, try a laser. They're great.
Laser sights are fine as long as you don't start counting on it to be there. Lasers are an electrical device and therefore less reliable than a mechanical device. Practice with both and never forget how to use your irons. Me personally I got rid of all my "tacticool" lasers and picked up nice scopes and mounted lights.
barnetmill
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None of the choices were suitable.
Normally I do not need them. But I have found that with my P32 Keltec I can shoot more accurately with the armalaser on it. So for deliberate fire under poor light with inadequate sights there is an advantage to the laser. I do not need a laser with my glock 33 that I normally point shoot and the issue night sights are adequate for precise aiming when called for.
Normally I do not need them. But I have found that with my P32 Keltec I can shoot more accurately with the armalaser on it. So for deliberate fire under poor light with inadequate sights there is an advantage to the laser. I do not need a laser with my glock 33 that I normally point shoot and the issue night sights are adequate for precise aiming when called for.
TheFallGuy
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Lasers are cool! But if you don't have good trigger control or the right grip, they are useless. A good laser will cost you hundreds. $100 will get you an instructor for an hour or two. I would learn without, get good groups, then add the laser.
theotherwaldo
Member
I like the LaserMax in my G27. I don't like Crimson Trace Grip Lasers that automatically turn themselves on.
I have the option of turning it on when low light levels interfere with sight picture acquisition.
Or when my opponent is silhouetted and I cannot see any part of my gun.
Or ... .
Lasers are a handy addition that can help in a tight spot.
I have the option of turning it on when low light levels interfere with sight picture acquisition.
Or when my opponent is silhouetted and I cannot see any part of my gun.
Or ... .
Lasers are a handy addition that can help in a tight spot.
divemedic
Member
OTOH, that is one more thing you have to think about turning on and fiddling with. The problem with the guide rod laser is if it fails and breaks, your entire weapon is non-functional.
I can always turn off the grip laser (it has an override switch)
As far as other comments that a laser "gives away your position" - what are you planning to do- ambush Viet Cong with it?
bnkrazy
Member
Not an issue, as most have a pressure switch under your middle finger that allows you to turn it on and off. Leave it off until you decide you have to shoot, and then press it on as you line up for the shot.
As a test, I left the batteries in one of my CT grips for almost 3 years before they finally dimmed, then died. Your battery won't just quit one day. It was noticeably dimmer for a few weeks before it quit altogether.
This was a gun I dry fired almost daily for at least a few minutes, so it had a decent workout.
After that, I decided to just replace the batteries once a year and not worry about it.
Kind of Blued
Member
A lot of the naysayers don't seem to realize that lasers don't have artificial intelligence programmed into them. The laser isn't going to "give away your position" any more than your gun is going to "shoot you instead of the bad guy". YOU get to use discretion on when and where you will use the laser, just like with your gun. Just because a tool has wiring or batteries doesn't mean it is a failure-prone tool. Guns have been not working for as long as they've existed. I've broken hammers before, etc.
On that note, the argument about batteries seems silly to me also. Lasers provide an advantage, much like hollow point ammunition. In the absolute worst case scenarios your battery will die and your hollow point will fail to expand. At this point your gun will be JUST as effective as the guy who doesn't like "doodads because they can fail". For 99% of all situations, however, your gun will be more effective.
I could also not identify my target using a flashlight because "the batteries could die". I could also live regretful and in prison because I didn't identify my target.
On that note, the argument about batteries seems silly to me also. Lasers provide an advantage, much like hollow point ammunition. In the absolute worst case scenarios your battery will die and your hollow point will fail to expand. At this point your gun will be JUST as effective as the guy who doesn't like "doodads because they can fail". For 99% of all situations, however, your gun will be more effective.
I could also not identify my target using a flashlight because "the batteries could die". I could also live regretful and in prison because I didn't identify my target.
mljdeckard
Member
This is why I didn't say never. They are useful, even beneficial, just a ways down the list for me. I don't see myself buying lasers, but if say, I came across a good used gun deal that already had a laser on it, I certainly wouldn't kick it back because it had a laser.
JohnOfSuburbia
Member
I got laser grips as a present, but as I was watching their mini-DVD I realized that they had several major advantages while lacking major downsides. Since my awareness of self-defense started in martial arts and grew from there, I first thought of the advantages against a close target:
First, you could hold the pistol in close to your body instead of thrusting it forward and closer to the target.
Second, the laser can help with a hurried initial shot.
For me, they're a gotta-have.
Now if they'd come out with Crimson Trace for the XDM...and I get a little money...I can have another "baby."
First, you could hold the pistol in close to your body instead of thrusting it forward and closer to the target.
Second, the laser can help with a hurried initial shot.
For me, they're a gotta-have.
Now if they'd come out with Crimson Trace for the XDM...and I get a little money...I can have another "baby."
Integration with a Tactical Light
I have a XD 45 that I'm using as my HD gun (full size, 4" barrel). I plan on getting a set of night sights for it soon, but I am also debating a laser, a tac-light, or both (mounted separately or as one unit). I would appreciate thoughts from all the fine THR members on this.
I am interested in the laser for the reason mentioned in this thread, including aquiring and keeping a target, trigger practice, dry firing, etc. I am interested in a light so I can see what I'm shooting at. I am just wondering if a pistol mounted tactical light plus a laser would be the best combination, or if I should go with a regular flash light and a laser? Picitinny mount, or CT grips?
Any advice would be appreciated.
I have a XD 45 that I'm using as my HD gun (full size, 4" barrel). I plan on getting a set of night sights for it soon, but I am also debating a laser, a tac-light, or both (mounted separately or as one unit). I would appreciate thoughts from all the fine THR members on this.
I am interested in the laser for the reason mentioned in this thread, including aquiring and keeping a target, trigger practice, dry firing, etc. I am interested in a light so I can see what I'm shooting at. I am just wondering if a pistol mounted tactical light plus a laser would be the best combination, or if I should go with a regular flash light and a laser? Picitinny mount, or CT grips?
Any advice would be appreciated.
357mag.
Member
When your arse is one the line,at self defence distance's,I have to dought that sights (even a little red dot)are going to come into play.Point the gun at COM,and pull the trigger as many times as needed.
JohnOfSuburbia
Member
That was one thing I thought about, too! Here's my take:
Tactical lights are great for police or military forces that are going to go in and clear an area quickly.
A tactical light on your gun means that there is light where your gun points and only there.
The two big problems I had with that are:
If you point the light at it, you're pointing a gun at it. If you're illuminating anything other than your target with it, say your way around the room or finding a family member raiding the fridge, you're breaking rule #1 already. Conversely, you'd need another?! light to scan anywhere you're not pointing.
If there's any concern about someone seeing and shooting at a light source, this is it (lasers only give you away if their point of light moves obviously) - and you've now anchored that light at a point close to you.
What I decided was best was to get a flashlight and have laser grips, so that I can use the flashlight to look around and even move it away from my body if I was afraid someone was shooting for it. The laser's got to be on the gun, of course, and even if I had a rail, I wouldn't want the light to add more controls to fiddle with.
Tactical lights are great for police or military forces that are going to go in and clear an area quickly.
A tactical light on your gun means that there is light where your gun points and only there.
The two big problems I had with that are:
If you point the light at it, you're pointing a gun at it. If you're illuminating anything other than your target with it, say your way around the room or finding a family member raiding the fridge, you're breaking rule #1 already. Conversely, you'd need another?! light to scan anywhere you're not pointing.
If there's any concern about someone seeing and shooting at a light source, this is it (lasers only give you away if their point of light moves obviously) - and you've now anchored that light at a point close to you.
What I decided was best was to get a flashlight and have laser grips, so that I can use the flashlight to look around and even move it away from my body if I was afraid someone was shooting for it. The laser's got to be on the gun, of course, and even if I had a rail, I wouldn't want the light to add more controls to fiddle with.
Let me put it this way if a weapon mounted laser is so gosh darn important that you "gotta have'em" then it is just a crutch and will hinder your capabilities as a shooter. I say practice with both if you have em. A good pair of night sights have never let me down, I never have to fumble with an on switch and I don't have to change the batteries.
If you think trusting irons over lasers is too old fashioned, why the hell doesn't the military issue lasers on their handguns? Hell I have never been issued a handgun with a rail let alone a laser! I will flat out say it I feel sorry for the man that practices only with his laser and bets his life on it without knowledge of his Irons. I find it absurd you guys recommend lasers over sights seriously this could be someones life we are talking about. As Mr. T says 'I pitty the fool'!
ScareyH22A
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Lol at guys at the range with lasers on and grouping 12" at 7rds. Lasers can help if you've already got a good trigger finger.
Gun Slinger
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No acceptable option for me in your poll. I couldn't choose an applicable (for me) answer.
I am not a big fan of hanging lights (or other "tacti-cool" devices
) off of a gun (pistol, shotgun or rifle) since they tend become "bullet magnets" if "light discipline" is not followed.
Many who use lasers also tend to develop some "really bad habits" and become too reliant on them. Iron sights never lose battery power.
I am not a big fan of hanging lights (or other "tacti-cool" devices
) off of a gun (pistol, shotgun or rifle) since they tend become "bullet magnets" if "light discipline" is not followed.Many who use lasers also tend to develop some "really bad habits" and become too reliant on them. Iron sights never lose battery power.
JohnOfSuburbia
Member
Don't get me wrong, Mags - I can punish the center of a target that I've run down a well-lighted shooting lane, but I don't expect that to be the situation I have to defend myself in. For self-defense, there's no such thing as too much going for you.
Still, I don't use the laser for shooting at the lane (though I've tested that too). The sights on the slide are always more accurate and won't need re-adjusting. Given the time (and space) to use them, they're superior!
Also, about activation and batteries...
At least for my Sig, the Crimson Trace grips have a front-activation button that's under your middle finger's middle knuckle (front of grip, below trigger guard). Working it doesn't bother me. If I got really tense and klutzy, it would be on because of a tight grip. I know that C.T. doesn't have that feature on grips for all models of gun, though. With some lasers it really is a switch-on beforehand.
C.T. also has a cute deal for the batteries. When I got mine, they had an offer to send you free batteries every year. I don't figure I'll be activating the laser too much, but I could go and buy a battery if I do use it that much. An average night of self-defense is going to require using the laser for a max of what, five minutes? That's not too much drain, really.
Still, I don't use the laser for shooting at the lane (though I've tested that too). The sights on the slide are always more accurate and won't need re-adjusting. Given the time (and space) to use them, they're superior!
Also, about activation and batteries...
At least for my Sig, the Crimson Trace grips have a front-activation button that's under your middle finger's middle knuckle (front of grip, below trigger guard). Working it doesn't bother me. If I got really tense and klutzy, it would be on because of a tight grip. I know that C.T. doesn't have that feature on grips for all models of gun, though. With some lasers it really is a switch-on beforehand.
C.T. also has a cute deal for the batteries. When I got mine, they had an offer to send you free batteries every year. I don't figure I'll be activating the laser too much, but I could go and buy a battery if I do use it that much. An average night of self-defense is going to require using the laser for a max of what, five minutes? That's not too much drain, really.
possum
Member
i use lasers for one thing and one thing only and that is dry fire practice. no need or use for them in a fight, and of all the training i do i do not do any with lasers. visable lasers, that is , IR is a different story however.
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