Law Enforcement and the Hillary Hole?
- Thread starter Boberama
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earlthegoat2
Member
Law Enforcement had pretty much switched to the semi auto by the time the lock was phased in around 2001.
Since S&W was probably recieving contracts for dismally few revolvers at that time I would have to say that there is not a special no lock LE configuration revolver. If there were than that would be merciful of them because then there would be no lock police trade ins on the way.
The only frame they make no locks in right now are Centennials and that is J Frame only.
I had a thought though. My sister is a Michigan State Police Troop and their BUGs are S&W 640 357s and they even have the lock on them. The 640 is a Centennial steel J Frame. So I would say it is a resounding NO on your question.
Since S&W was probably recieving contracts for dismally few revolvers at that time I would have to say that there is not a special no lock LE configuration revolver. If there were than that would be merciful of them because then there would be no lock police trade ins on the way.
The only frame they make no locks in right now are Centennials and that is J Frame only.
I had a thought though. My sister is a Michigan State Police Troop and their BUGs are S&W 640 357s and they even have the lock on them. The 640 is a Centennial steel J Frame. So I would say it is a resounding NO on your question.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
There is an option for no lock on semi-autos that are sold to LEO's.
Landpimp
Member
all of our S&W wheelguns in the S&W LE line all have locks, we only sell S&W LE guns.
I asked two officers from two different local agencies about these locks on LEO guns.
Both told me that their respective agencies do not allow J-frames with IL's. Only pre lock or lock free handguns are approved. Both opined that very few officers even used revolvers as back up or off duty guns anymore. Just a few of the near retirement mossbacks use wheel guns off duty. Neither could remember an officer currently using a revolver as a duty gun.
One told me that S&W had assured them that their new M&P 45 pistols would be lock free. When I asked why his agency was specifically told that he replied, "I guess they want to sell them to us."
One opined as to "what idiot would stake his life on one of those? (IL equipped handgun)". I don't disagree with him. YMMV
TJ
Both told me that their respective agencies do not allow J-frames with IL's. Only pre lock or lock free handguns are approved. Both opined that very few officers even used revolvers as back up or off duty guns anymore. Just a few of the near retirement mossbacks use wheel guns off duty. Neither could remember an officer currently using a revolver as a duty gun.
One told me that S&W had assured them that their new M&P 45 pistols would be lock free. When I asked why his agency was specifically told that he replied, "I guess they want to sell them to us."
One opined as to "what idiot would stake his life on one of those? (IL equipped handgun)". I don't disagree with him. YMMV
TJloose cannon
Member
all i buy in s&w is prelocks
there is a brand new m642 no-lock nib a mile from me that will join my family soon.
there is a brand new m642 no-lock nib a mile from me that will join my family soon.
Guillermo
member
do any of the locks on Jerry Miculek's guns function?
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Dave in PA
Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2006
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- 120
Maybe it's obvious, but IL = Internal Lock
Main Entry: ill !il
Pronunciation: \ ˈil \
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): worse!wurs \ ˈwərs \ , worst!wurst \ ˈwərst \ ,
Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse illr
Date: 12th century
Results
1 a. 1 achiefly Scottishimmoral viciousb. bresulting from, accompanied by, or indicative of an evil or malevolent intention - ∼ deedsc. cattributing evil or an objectionable quality - held an ∼ opinion of his neighbors
2 a. 2 acausing suffering or distress - ∼ weatherb. bcomparative also ill·ersuperlative also illest(1). (1)not normal or sound - ∼ health(2). (2)not in good healthalsonauseated
3 a. 3 anot suited to circumstances or not to one's advantage : unlucky - an ∼ omenb. binvolving difficulty : hard
4 a. 4 anot meeting an accepted standard - ∼ mannersb. barchaicnotably unskillful or inefficient
5. 5unfriendly hostile - ∼ feeling
Pronunciation: \ ˈil \
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): worse!wurs \ ˈwərs \ , worst!wurst \ ˈwərst \ ,
Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse illr
Date: 12th century
Results
1 a. 1 achiefly Scottishimmoral viciousb. bresulting from, accompanied by, or indicative of an evil or malevolent intention - ∼ deedsc. cattributing evil or an objectionable quality - held an ∼ opinion of his neighbors
2 a. 2 acausing suffering or distress - ∼ weatherb. bcomparative also ill·ersuperlative also illest(1). (1)not normal or sound - ∼ health(2). (2)not in good healthalsonauseated
3 a. 3 anot suited to circumstances or not to one's advantage : unlucky - an ∼ omenb. binvolving difficulty : hard
4 a. 4 anot meeting an accepted standard - ∼ mannersb. barchaicnotably unskillful or inefficient
5. 5unfriendly hostile - ∼ feeling
fastbolt
Member
Every time I've asked someone from S&W whether any LE agency has ordered revolvers (like J-frames) made without the ILS, I've been told no, that they get the same revolvers the public buys.
The Model 40/42 doesn't have the ILS, BTW.
None of the cops in the DAO J-frame revolver armorer class I attended had anything bad to report about the new style revolvers equipped with the ILS, used by either themselves or any of their folks. Granted, a couple of other guys who had also apparently used revolvers as service weapons back in the day didn't seem to care for the ILS for cosmetic reasons.
I asked the instructor if any other armorers attending his classes had reported functioning problems related to the ILS and he said that it hadn't yet come up as something which had caused anyone problems. (And J-frames are very popular as off-duty and secondary/backup weapons.)
Only one of my J-frames has the ILS, a M&P 340 (because it wasn't available without one). I've had no problems with mine, and it's actually carried more often than my pair of 642-1's or my 649 Bodyguard (older .38 Spl model).
I've handled and fired a number of ILS-equipped S&W revolvers, and have also observed other folks shooting them, as well (and have helped maintain some for other folks who own and carry them as an armorer). No problems experienced or observed to date.
Given my druthers I'd prefer a revolver without the ILS, since I use other methods to deny unauthorized persons access to my weapons, but that's just a personal preference. I have been thinking about adding yet another J-frame to my collection of retirement guns. A M40 nickel or M42 Airweight are currently at the top of my list in that regard.
My M&P 340 is a fine shooting little gun, though.
The Model 40/42 doesn't have the ILS, BTW.
None of the cops in the DAO J-frame revolver armorer class I attended had anything bad to report about the new style revolvers equipped with the ILS, used by either themselves or any of their folks. Granted, a couple of other guys who had also apparently used revolvers as service weapons back in the day didn't seem to care for the ILS for cosmetic reasons.
I asked the instructor if any other armorers attending his classes had reported functioning problems related to the ILS and he said that it hadn't yet come up as something which had caused anyone problems. (And J-frames are very popular as off-duty and secondary/backup weapons.)
Only one of my J-frames has the ILS, a M&P 340 (because it wasn't available without one). I've had no problems with mine, and it's actually carried more often than my pair of 642-1's or my 649 Bodyguard (older .38 Spl model).
I've handled and fired a number of ILS-equipped S&W revolvers, and have also observed other folks shooting them, as well (and have helped maintain some for other folks who own and carry them as an armorer). No problems experienced or observed to date.
Given my druthers I'd prefer a revolver without the ILS, since I use other methods to deny unauthorized persons access to my weapons, but that's just a personal preference. I have been thinking about adding yet another J-frame to my collection of retirement guns. A M40 nickel or M42 Airweight are currently at the top of my list in that regard.
My M&P 340 is a fine shooting little gun, though.
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The last new S&W revolver I purchased was a Sept. 2001-made Performance Center Model 646 moon-clipped revolver . . . just before they put the weep-hole on the left side. They lost my business after that . . . NOT that I haven't purchased quite a few S&W revolvers since that time!
Basically, there are plenty of pristine pre-2002 versions that come on the market occasionally from owners or collectors to keep me happy until S&W figures out that it is stupid to make a revolver that is less reliable.
Basically, there are plenty of pristine pre-2002 versions that come on the market occasionally from owners or collectors to keep me happy until S&W figures out that it is stupid to make a revolver that is less reliable.
BHP FAN
Member
I sure wish that that Taurus had picked this as the one feature NOT to copy...
Guillermo
member
The Taurus version is not dangerous as it works perpendicular to the recoil of the gun. Sadly the "great brains" at Smith & Clinton designed their lock to work the same direction as the recoil energy of the gun. The Hillary Hole is a truly a pathetic example of engineering.
Landpimp
Member
Taurus, easy to remove the lock, just dremil it off
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