Law Enforcement: Guns Recovered From Criminals

Status
Not open for further replies.

atlctyslkr

Member
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
477
Location
Atlanta, GA
This is primarily aimed at the law enforcement officers on this forum.

I am curious to know what types of guns are being recovered from criminals and what types of ammunition are being used? What do you find when you locate illegal guns on a traffic stop or disarm a criminal.

Just wondering what I am likely to face. Maybe I read the paper too much but I'm assuming it's some cheap 9mm loaded with cheap FMJ rounds. I doubt that criminals are going online and researching ammo to buy.
 
not LEO here, but there is probably no answer other than an apocryphal or anecdotal observation. Regardless of what type of gun you 'may be up against', the thing that counts is how willing the perp is to pull the trigger (and you can score him high on that one), and how willing and able you are to do the same.
 
it isn't what I remember but it's close

Smith &Wesson Guns Used Most In NY Crimes

By Tom Hays

Associated Press Writer

An analysis of handguns recovered at crime scenes throughout New York state found that Smith & Wesson Corp. had made more of the weapons than any other manufacturer, according to testimony at a gun trial in Brooklyn.

The analysis, based on previously sealed federal data from 1996 to 2000, ranked Lorcini Engineering as No. 2, followed by Bryco Arms; Sturm, Ruger & Co.; Davis Industries; Taurus International; Raven Arms; Glock Inc.; Hi-Point Firearms and Colt’s Manufacturing Co.

The study by an expert witness, Dr. Howard Andrews, of Columbia University, also singles out individual dealers and several states as major sources of thousands of guns recovered in New York state, mainly in New York City.

Ranked first among the source states was Virginia, also home to the top two dealers. Next were Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Alabama and Connecticut.

The lists emerged this week as evidence at a federal civil trial in Brooklyn at which the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People has accused dozens of handgun makers and dealers of fueling street violence in minority communities in New York state through negligent marketing practices.

The plaintiffs have built their case on the four-year sampling of so-called trace data provided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms under court order. The newly disclosed data detail the sales history of weapons recovered at crime scenes.

The data, the lawyers argue, help prove the gun industry knew which dealers were disreputable but still sold them weapons.

But a spokesman for the defendants, Lawrence Keane, attacked the analysis by Andrews, saying it "doesn’t hold up to scrutiny" because it fails to account for factors like sales volume.

Smith & Wesson was ranked first in crime scene guns ``because they’ve been around a long time and sold tens of millions of guns,’’ Keane, general counsel of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, said last Thursday. "You can’t deduce anything from that."

The study also ignores the fact that many weapons used in crimes were stolen or were resold on the black market long after gun makers distributed them to legitimate dealers, Keane said. Some manufacturers identified as sources for crime scene guns have been bankrupt or defunct for years, he added.

The NAACP lawsuit alleges gun makers knowingly sell their products to corrupt dealers who supply criminals. It seeks to force distributors to restrict sales to dealers who have storefront outlets, prohibit sales to gun show dealers and limit individual purchasers to one handgun a month.

The defendants and industry trade groups argue that it’s unfair and unlawful to hold manufacturers liable for the criminal use of a legal product. They also say that legislatures _ not courts — should set standards for sales and that gun makers already do a good job of regulating themselves.

Andrews, who testifiedlast week, was to be cross-examined this week by gun industry lawyers.
 
I don't have the latest FBI statistics, but from just a few years ago, the "Top 10" list of weapons siezed during criminal investigations consisted of mostly .38 caliber revolvers. The 12-gauge shotgun was also on the "Top 10" list, and the 9mm pistol was listed as well, but....there were NO so-called "assault weapons", such as the AK-47, AR-15 or Uzi!

In my law enforcement days (31 years worth), I seized quite a few .22 caliber firearms. Several were sawed-off .22 rifles.

I also seized a converted Uzi...originally a semi-auto version, but most of the select-fire parts added on. The "conversion" of it had not been done properly, for the bolt return spring didn't hold up to the full-auto mode....fortunately! Besides that, the gang member who had it was lucky that it wouldn't fire, for he had tripped and the muzzle was filled with hard packed dirt! It probably would have blown up in his hands if it hadn't malfunctioned!

During one particular "undercover" investigation, several home-made "machine pistols" were seized. They had been put together from parts that had been machined at a maritime vessel repair firm, and a total of 19 employees were involved. Those "machine pistols" were somewhat crude-looking in appearance, but they WORKED! By the way, that investigation started out with a "vice" arrest, of a man masturbating in a public restroom! Sorry for the pun, but due to a "stroke" of luck, those home-made machine pistols didn't make their way into the hands of their intended buyers....gang members!

I even seized a "replica" gun from an ex-con! He was on parole for armed robbery, and working as a "bounty hunter" for a local bail bondsman. His "replica" gun was an EXACT copy of the Colt 1911 pistol. For that matter, he had LIVE rounds in the magazine! The barrel was a replica, with no chance of being able to fire those LIVE rounds. The ex-con had a cut-off nylon stocking in the rear seat of his vehicle, and PROBABLY was responsible for some "armed" robberies, but that was never proven. Just think, an ex-con on the prowl for bail-jumping bad guys....with a fake gun! Where's the "Dawg"?
 
I don't paticularly want to be shot with anything. I would like to know what my adversary may be using against me. Knowing the weopons of your enemies is one of the basic fundamentals of warfare. I'd also like to research and study the accuracy and techniques of the criminal element. I'd like to see some hard studies on how a criminal is likely to behave when he feels he must use his firearm. Does he aim? Does he point and shoot?
 
DUH...

Yeah, Majic, as a matter of fact, if given a choice, you betcha I'd rather be shot with a FMJ than an HP! And I believe that anyone who is willing to defend themselves with a firearm had better get used to the idea that at combat ranges, there is a good chance they will have to function even though hit, the important thing being shooting more accurately than your adversary in order inflict a fightstopping hit first. I would indeed be interested in an academic way in knowing what I'd be most likely to encounter in a gunfight if possible...
 
Maybe I read the paper too much but I'm assuming it's some cheap 9mm loaded with cheap FMJ rounds. I doubt that criminals are going online and researching ammo to buy.
Don't ever, ever assume in this business. In the past, I've taken even a minty Colt Python loaded with premium 125-grain .357 JHPs, Beretta 92FSs with 115-grain +P JHPs, Glock .40s loaded with HydraShok, Colt 1911s in .45 with hardball and JHPs ... Many guns carried by criminals are stolen, and many are stolen with ammo -- from regular gun-owners who just may be connoisseurs of quality firearms and ammunition. And yes, criminals do read the gunrags just as many of us do (or claim not to do) ... Some of 'em even know a thing or two about firearms, and more than you might think have military experience with firearms. If you're gonna be on patrol, and thinking that the criminals you encounter are normally using cheap guns, FMJ ammo, have never read anything about guns or tactics, never practice with firearms and have no training in tactics or weaponry -- you could end up in a bad, bad spot ...
 
there are always plenty of those lorcin/davis/jennings autos floating around. i've seen a colt python, several glocks, a nazi marked luger, a couple 1911s, and a lot of revolvers.

i've taken a few shotguns (usually cut down), but the assault rifles are mostly taken from residences during raids. most turds carry pistols. rifles are too unwieldy to just carry around all the time. i haven't seen a lot of assault rifles taken. sometimes you'll happen on a raid and find a cache of weapons. they're usually hunting rifles that were taken from a burglary. most turds don't hang on to weapons very long that they took in a crime. they usually funnel those out to a connection, but they do buy stolen weapons. they don't want the link of the stolen weapon coming back to them. being caught with a stolen gun is one thing. being caught with a stolen gun from a burglary you committed is another.
 
The overwhelming majority of felony murder cases I saw in my former office were stabbings. Bludgeons were also pretty prominent. Mostly they were in very nasty circumstances, and I try to forget them. Almost none of our capital felony, death row people used a firearm at all.
We had one who opened up with an IMI Uzi carbine and hit some bystanders. I suggested to my supervisor that we tack on some prohibited assault weapon charges, and she replied" "What what the what what now?"
Guy got 47 years, two counts attempted murder, state AWB never came into play. Probably he'll die in prison, (was in his late 40's) and that's how the majority of these play out. "Assault Weapon" laws are an afterthought to a process geared towards initally charging with the most serious crimes the evidence will support.
 
Saw a pic in the paper recently, guns retrieved during 'Operation Falcon Two'. In the pic were two pellet guns, a paintball handgun, a small crossbow, and what was apparently a sawed off blackpowder something or other. Plus a few knives and a baton.
 
Over the years I've seen everything from Jennings .22s to a mint Steyr AUG taken away from criminals. (the AUG came from a drug courier who had about 35 pounds of a white powdery substance that turned out to be cocaine)

I've seen a picture of a recovered very high dollar English shotgun that was taken in a burglary and sawed off to be used in a robbery. I think it was a Purdy.

You cant trust trace data for stats like that because not every siezed firearm is traced through the BATFE.

Jeff
 
I've seen a picture of a recovered very high dollar English shotgun that was taken in a burglary and sawed off to be used in a robbery. I think it was a Purdy.

That should be hanging offense right there.
 
I recall someone either here or on another board had a vintage H&H double rifle stolen, and then recovered some months later having been cut into pistol configuration. That should be a crime by itself, independant of the SBR laws.
 
Last one I was involved in recovering was a Jennings 9mm loaded with 3 different types of ammo from 4 different brands, in no particular order.... the majority were remington FMJ, or winchester FMJ, a couple winchester wally world special HP, and 1 was one of those expensive magsafe rounds... oddly enough it was the last in the magazine.

For the most part, the odd .22, .25, or .32 are the most common.... mostly because they're cheap, easy to get because nobody thinks otherwise of such a small caliber, small enough to hide in a pocket, and the best part is they're simple to dispose of. After you cap some homie in the unemployment line, just wrap it in your baby's dirty diaper and the cops won't find it (or atleast they think).
 
My uncle loves criminals with illegal guns. Not for their illegal activities, but because after the LEOs are done using the gun as evidence to convict the criminal then my uncle gets the gun at a very low price if not almost nothing. Then he restores it and makes sure it's in working order and then sells it at a much higher price and makes a great profit. Don't worry everyone. He's got an FFL and also class III status.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top