LC 7.62 Brass Headstamp ?

[Howa 9700]

Since my intent is to make a good stab at accuracy when loading this pull down brass, I decided to eliminate one variable and sort it into date stamped lots. In my sample of 500 cases, I have found 4 different headstamps.......

LC 13, LC 13 + dots, LC 14 and LC 14 + dots

The Internet seems to think the dots are SCAMP marks, used to ID which of the 24 lines the brass came from. That might make sense if all brass had them, but most do not.

Out of my sample, I'm thinking the % would break down to LC 13 - 75%; LC 14 - 10%; LC 14 + dots - 10% and LC 13 + dots 5%.

So does anyone know for certain what the dots are? The cases with dots tend to weigh about 1 1/2 grains less than no dots. BTW, All LC brass tends to weigh about 4 to 6 grains more than similar brand new Starline brass, with spent primer in the mix to make them similar.

 

[AJC1]

For two years of the same headstamp if your going for the best accuracy I would fully prepare and then weight sort the entire lot. There going to be made of the exact same material and you will be uniforming them so weight is volume considering all other factors are removed. Sorting by headstamp to having a meaningful purpose is to minimize differences which that lot shouldn't have.

 

[jebova2301]

The dots are SCAMP markings. Requoting from arfcom so I don't have to retype it all...

The term is SCAMP. Small Caliber Ammunition Modernization Program. The dots are used to identify the station of the rotary loading machinery that made the case. The system used is based on what is called the "octal numbering system". Each dot has a number value that in various combinations can represent each number up to 24. Various combinations of dots equal various numbers which can be tracked back the the specific station of the rotary press if there were case-related QC issues.

Long story short, even if you have all the exact same year from lake city, the vast majority of the brass is going to be made on a number of different machines. If you're going for absolute "knock the nuts off a gnat at 500 yards" accuracy, your best bet is going to be to weigh every individual case, and sort by weight and also by case capacity.

 

[Rule3]

LC brass sure seems to be a item lately!
Not only sort by date but then but scamp marks??
Case volume is more important than weight.

I inquired on the other thread but seems to have disappeared??

For those sorting brass by headstamp of quality brass that have no date or dots, what then??

Unless someone is going for trophies or money, whats the point?. Heck if that was situation then wouldn't some high end brass be even better?
Does Lapua have dates??

OCD or Anal??

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lake-city-brass.890509/

 

[bluejay75]

Measure the length of five each of each type. If they measure the same I would weigh them. If the weight is within 1 grain I would say they are the same and roll with it.

But based on the photos… neck size, load and shoot them first. No need to waste the primers. And I wouldn’t want to be the guy punching out live primers against a crimped primer pocket.

 

[AJC1]

LC brass sure seems to be a item lately!
Not only sort by date but then but scamp marks??
Case volume is more important than weight.

I inquired on the other thread but seems to have disappeared??

For those sorting brass by headstamp of quality brass that have no date or dots, what then??

Unless someone is going for trophies or money, whats the point?. Heck if that was situation then wouldn't some high end brass be even better?
Does Lapua have dates??

OCD or Anal??

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lake-city-brass.890509/

How you you get a different volume than weight on uniformed cases of the same make?

 

[Akula69]

"knock the nuts off a gnat at 500 yards" accuracy,

(sigh) If only...and the gnat must sit still

 

[Charlie98]

Since my intent is to make a good stab at accuracy when loading this pull down brass

It really depends on what your expectations of accuracy are... and I don't mean to sound tricky. If you are loading for absolute accuracy... you need to start with a more consistent brass, something like Lapua. Military brass is not really that consistent, and as you mentioned, there are differences in weights... and very likely volume.

If you are looking for reasonable accuracy from standard components... then just pick one of your lots that has enough cases for your purpose and go to town. You didn't mention what bullet you might be using, nor what it is going into... those are factors as well. When I first started loading 5.56mm for my AR-15, I was very disappointed in the accuracy my handloads gave me. What I came to realize was the bullet I was using, standard 55grn FMJ bulk bullets, were NOT going to give me what I was looking for. .308/7.62mm is the same thing...

 

[Howa 9700]

First loading is going to be more of a learning process than anything. If I'm able to achieve 1 MOA victory will be declared. And that from a HOWA 1500 which is capable of better.

I have some Hornady 165 gr interbond hunting bullets, and some Speer 150 gr hot cor. Were not my first choice, but were available. Both intended for hunting, but with enough practice to know if they can be shot a bit further. Doubt any of the hunting use will be shot past 200 yards.....targets out to 500 yards max.

Again, my purpose for reloading is to assure a reliable source of ammo for the rest of my days, plus I enjoy doing it. Not competing, but no reason to miss a lot of targets for lack of effort on my part. A gun and load combo that will reliably shoot 1 MOA is good enough for now.

Once this primed brass is fired (and beginning of fire forming to the chamber), cleaned up and sorted for weight, better outcome may be sought.

 

[Howa 9700]

BTW, the HOWA belongs to one of my kids.....who shot Expert in the Marines. He is currently out of country, so I get to play with his piece till he gets back. His expectations of accuracy will probably be a bit higher but that will be for him to work out.

 

[FROGO207]

Have you tried any factory ammo in it yet? I bet your first load workup will be an improvement on any factory stuff you may try. When I first started reloading I was using pulldown propellant and bullets. One of the old timers at the range after watching me shoot and quizzing me up on my loads said the best road to accuracy is to buy the best bullet you can and tweak from there. It has been good advice for me to follow when I want accuracy. YMMV

 

[Charlie98]

the best road to accuracy is to buy the best bullet you can

That, x1000

Given the components you have on hand, I would start with the Speer bullets. I've not found Speer bullets to be as accurate as Hornadys, that may just be my specific experience with them. Build your experience with those, then switch to the Hornady bullet.

What powder(s) do you have on hand?

 

[dh1633pm]

I don’t sort at all by date, weight, or volume. I just need acceptable accuracy. For my needs, at 300 yards a nine is almost as good as a ten. Don’t think I am saying not to do whatever is in your secret sauce. Just that not sorting is my secret and for acceptable accuracy it works for me. I use LC brass for all my 308 needs. I don’t spend time making the pockets uniform. I do trim as needed. 168 SMK’s for the Milspec and 150 Hornady’s for the GSR.

 

[FROGO207]

It all comes down to wether it's worth your time to do a certain task versus a benefit for doing it. If you can half your group by doing it great, if the difference might not be noticed then why bother unless it makes a big enough difference at a distance you feel that you have to continue. Everything in life is a tradeoff it seems.

 

[Rule3]

First loading is going to be more of a learning process than anything. If I'm able to achieve 1 MOA victory will be declared. And that from a HOWA 1500 which is capable of better.

I have some Hornady 165 gr interbond hunting bullets, and some Speer 150 gr hot cor. Were not my first choice, but were available. Both intended for hunting, but with enough practice to know if they can be shot a bit further. Doubt any of the hunting use will be shot past 200 yards.....targets out to 500 yards max.

Again, my purpose for reloading is to assure a reliable source of ammo for the rest of my days, plus I enjoy doing it. Not competing, but no reason to miss a lot of targets for lack of effort on my part. A gun and load combo that will reliably shoot 1 MOA is good enough for now.

Once this primed brass is fired (and beginning of fire forming to the chamber), cleaned up and sorted for weight, better outcome may be sought.

It seems that you may be starting out the "hard" way?
You seek 1 moa, trying to eliminate variables etc,. have a nice accurate bolt action rifle . You talk about fire forming (neck size only after shooting)??

But are starting out with crimped, NATO brass?
If that's all you have OK ,but if not perhaps buy a bag of Lapua or Norma brass and they will last for a long time. Yes expensive but it is available

 

[Howa 9700]

Factory loads? Kid left about 100 rounds or so of mixed headstamp brass and some partial boxes of loaded. Pretty sure he had been shooting what was on sale. But most of that was for sighting in and hunting. He couldn't afford to shoot as much as he wanted to or had time for.

Before the store ammo shelves emptied out, I managed to snag a couple boxes of Federal.......some game kings and a box of Match ammo. Match stuff shot pretty well for me. Enough to convince me the rifle was worthy of better. But with cupboard looking bare, was reluctant to shoot it all and have nothing left. This latest episode of a year long event of empty shelves is one of the issues that prompted me to get back to reloading after a 50 year break. Not only for the 308 but 3 other calibers as well. Writing has been on the wall for several years. Needed to be doing this. Was caught short this time, but never again.

Powders? For the 308, have managed to snag a pound or so of 4064 and Accurate 2495. Enough to get me started and to do some load testing. Long term, would prefer to switch to H4895, RL15 or similar as it becomes available. Wanting commonly available, accurate, temp insensitive powders that can be shot in 30's and 40's hunting and warmer weather for load development or paper.

As for brass, this LC stuff isn't the only brass I have. Did manage to pick up a sample of Starline. Figure that will be a good comparison of the LC to a commercial brass.

 

[Howa 9700]

On the LC brass with small dots (not the larger SCAMP dimples some photos show), there is noise about those dots suggesting that when Federal was running Lake City, they were allowed to use the plant's extra capacity to produce commercial ammo, some of it sold under the American Eagle brand. There are reports that some AE brass carried the LC headstamp, and those dots.

The SCAMP version of the story which claims is it is used to mark which production line the ammo came from is a tougher sell.......only because most of this brass does not have any dots.

Somebody knows for sure.......just haven't found that person yet.

 

[twarr1]

I’ve never seen true SCAMP marks that were just a dot. The top one is SCAMP marks. The one on the bottom… I don’t think so.

 

[Charlie98]

Production equipment is different on 7.62mm vs 5.56mm... where you see the bigger dots. I think my 7.62mm LC has the small dots...

Yes, it's true... when Federal ran LC, they produced ammo for commercial sale. Some 'commercial' ammo has crimped primers, some likely has SCAMP dots... yes, it was made on the same equipment. Now that Winchester is running LC, we will probably see more Winchester-branded overrun ammos... same same.