LC vs FC 223 brass

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bbqreloader

bbqreloader

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So reloading 223. Since it is the first time I am making up dummy rounds for the plunk tests. Using RMR .224 FMJ/BT with Cannelure. Having headache because when I was initially seating I was mid of the cannelure and running at a 2.255. Shortnened it up and and am now just at the top of the cannelure and running around 2.245. That's for the FC brass, the LC brass kept running longer. So I measured the LC vs the FC. LC was at 1.760+ vs the FC 1.750+. Using RCBS 223 SB T/C die set.
The FC's plunked fine but the LC hung up. Testing on Colt AR multi cal. Loaded a mag with the FC and a cuple of the LC's that were over the 2.255. The FC's ejected fine but the LC's kept getting hung up.
My question are, is LC brass a different animal that I am not accounting something for? And do I need to be on the cannelure or can I shorten it up just a little above the cannuelure to make sure I can feed a little bit better?
Thanks.
 
LC is good brass are you trimming your brass after resizing? Or just loading without checking and trimming to a uniform length?
 
Your LC brass at 1.760 + is at max and should be trimmed without the brass being trimmed a uniform length you seating depth will be messed up
 
all the federal I have is shorter than recommended trim length 1.740. trim the LC to 1.740 and this way all cases are the same length and OAL with be same length. if I remember right my FC cases are like 1.730. size the cases and then run through a trimmer. Size first then trim. if you want them all consistent then trim them to all the same length and you will get the same OAL.

What I would do I run all the cases through the trimmer to 1.740 and if the federal is shorter than that's fine you should load them separate from the LC cause OAL will be different if the FC is shorter than 1.740. How are you "plunking" 223 rounds? I make a dummy round-no powder-primer in a sized then trimmed case and seat the bullet to what the book says and then take a black sharpie marker and color the bullet all the way and then chamber it nice and easy and then un chamber it and if there is marks where the marker is rubbed off I seat a little deeper and color the bullet in again and keep chambering them until they don't show the cut marks from the lands anymore. for my rifle its 2.230 but I seat about 2.225 to stay away from it.
 
cant help with seating to cannelure cause I don't mess with autoloaders. some say seat to canellure and crimp and some say don't. ill let others chime in on that.
 
I do know that after my initial firing my FC brass tends to shrink in .223. I had about 100pcs i acquired and I use if for load development so I have fired it 5 times or so I think, it shrinks
 
JO JO said:
LC is good brass are you trimming your brass after resizing? Or just loading without checking and trimming to a uniform length?
Click to expand...
JO JO, dont have a trimmer. Wasn't to sure I was ever going to need one, was only loading handgun prior to this. Apparently I need to look into getting one now.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
cant help with seating to cannelure cause I don't mess with autoloaders. some say seat to canellure and crimp and some say don't. ill let others chime in on that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I didn't think about the whole cannelure thing when I ordered. I think whats throwing me is the boattail, longer than the flatbase I see in other bullets, so the bullet seems longer.
 
bbqreloader said:
JO JO, dont have a trimmer. Wasn't to sure I was ever going to need one, was only loading handgun prior to this. Apparently I need to look into getting one now.
Click to expand...
You really need to get a good reloading manual and read the Rifle reloading section and go step by step because trimming is an important step of loading rife ammo !!
 
Jo Jo is absolutely correct here.
Lyman's 49th or 50th edition is a good place to start on reloading manuals. You might also want to read this:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/10-common-reloading-mistakes/

Not trimming your rifle brass is number 6.

Trimming brass is usually not needed for handgun rounds absent high pressure magnums but rifles operate on a whole different level on pressure which often causes the brass to stretch.

I would recommend also getting a Wilson (or other make) case gauge to check your rifle loads.
 
I second both reading a reloading manual & trimming your brass. It doesn't have to be exact but it should to be under max. Forget about the cannelure & seat to get your mag.

FC seems to hold up well in 223. Better then 30-06 anyways.

Trim your FC if it will & your LC. Hopefully they will end up close to the same size but if they don't then that will be OK also. Eventually they will. Then ignore the cannelure & just seat to fit the mag.
 
If you are not reloading a whole lot of rounds and are willing to put up with using your hands, Lee makes a pretty foolproof manual trimmer for most rifle cartridges that has a built in gage--(Lee Case Length Gauge & Cutter and Lock Stud) for about $20 or so. Apart from the specific case length gauge for a cartridge (which is under $10 each), you can use the other parts--the cutter and lock stud-- with additional case length gauges. If the cartridge is shorter than the lee case gauge, it will not trim so it is pretty much fool proof. I reload for a lot of cartridges but don't reload a whole lot at one time. This was my affordable way to start trimming rifle cases. BTW, often if you buy new unfired rifle brass, you have to trim it.

Up from there you can get as fancy as you want for trimmers from lot of suppliers depending on how versatile and precise you want it and how the trimming operation is powered.
 
The Lee Pilot and Cutter in a hand held drill ..... will cut a pile of brass .... yea it is a little work and that is the tightening and loosing of the lock base ... I seen folks adapt short handles to those pieces(lock & Stud)to make it easier to open and close ....

You can also use just the cutter and pilot in a drill press ... this uses the drill table for the pilot stop and you have to hold each case with your hands .... you can do this about as fast as you can run the drill quill up and down once you get the feel of the whole process ... have to be careful not to put too much pressure on the pilot tip as it will deform and cause short brass ... like I say it is a learning process .... but probably the "cheapest & fastest method" .... that is unless you are processing thousands of brass ... then I would look other direction for something better ...
 
O/T Thanks for the tips JimKirk. I have developed inflammatory arthritis in my hands and it has been difficult for me to reload much lately so power equipment is good. I used the old big wooden ball holder that Lee sold as an accessory with the trimmers and manually trimmed the cases. Don't really load hot so I don't have that much trimming to do--just a touchup now and then. But, the .223 brass is building up and that is a new caliber for me and thus knowing some automation types is good.

BTW, lee has a short video demonstrating the use of their tools for trimming. http://leeprecision.com/cutter-lock-stud.html
 
Dont have too much 223 brass yet, 500 pieces. Went and reread some of my manuals last night for the rifle reloading, obviously a different animal from the handgun cartridges I'm use to.
Sorted all my 223 brass by headstamp, so federal is my main brass and I ordered a brass trimmer and associated die, just to get me going,
http://leeprecision.com/deluxe-quick-trim-case-trimmer.html
Already have the case gauge.
Thanks for the advice.
 
Trimming is needed with bottle necked brass, usually after a couple reloads anyway but always check. I do this on my initial inspection after I resize the brass. Glad you asked and now have purchased the trimmer. With that said I tried the crimp route and it was a pain fitting the bullet cannalure just so in the brass. Then I tried some without crimping them in, guess what! Those rounds were more accurate. So I experimented with it both ways and have settled on measuring the brass and if it is not over MAX on the gauge I just load the round and never crimp. I do this with almost all my bottle necked brass unless for a lever gun. There is a small difference with the style of bullet but if it is the same weight and approximately the same shape I load them as the same ignoring the cannalure completely. Note different styles of bullet with different ogives will end up with different OAL even when the same weight.
 
All the bottleneck cases in several calibers I have reloaded all shortened a couple thousandths when fired, then grew three or so thousandths from full length sizing. They grow about .001" every shoot, resize/reload then shoot cycle. I trim 'em back after they grow about .010" from last trim.
 
Bart B. said:
All the bottleneck cases in several calibers I have reloaded all shortened a couple thousandths when fired, then grew three or so thousandths from full length sizing. They grow about .001" every shoot, resize/reload then shoot cycle. I trim 'em back after they grow about .010" from last trim.
Click to expand...

Curious, Lyman's 49th stated that after the 4th trim, toss the batch. Wondering what your experience is with that. Do the cases actually make it to the 4th trim? I read about the ring on the outside that should be the indicator of case head failure and I believe it was either bds or walkalong who mentioned something about a feeler for inside the case. Just seemed like alot of material being removed by the 4th time.
 
bbqreloader said:
Curious, Lyman's 49th stated that after the 4th trim, toss the batch. Wondering what your experience is with that. Do the cases actually make it to the 4th trim? I read about the ring on the outside that should be the indicator of case head failure and I believe it was either bds or walkalong who mentioned something about a feeler for inside the case. Just seemed like alot of material being removed by the 4th time.
Click to expand...
Cases tend to grow the most on the first and second firing, and then that slows down. As long as you do not find any thinning inside the case indicating the start of a separation, it doesn't matter how many trimmings or how much has been removed as far as being safe to use goes.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/incipient-case-head-separation.734058/
 
The test I made with a SAAMI spec chambered barrel with a 1.630" minimum headspace. It started with a new Federal 308 Win case trimmed to 2.000" then reloaded 46 times with 42 grains of IMR4895 over Federal 210 primers holding Sierra 165 grain SBT hunting bullets. Every cycle grew the case length .0008" on average as it was full length sized in a gelded die, whose neck was .002" smaller than loaded round necks, setting case shoulder back about .0015" to .0020" each time. When the case reached 2.010" long, it was trimmed back to 2.000". That happened every 12 or so times that case was fired. That case made it to its 4th trim after its first one. Occasional checks for case head separation didn't reveal any.

I read a few months ago that a benchrest record was recently set with cases full length sized over 100 times.

Depending on the details of any reloading process, tools, techniques and the beliefs of those doing it along with the specific rifles used, all sorts of conclusions will be reached. The skill levels at being meticulous in such activities influence the results.

No offense intended by this but it's a reality we all need to be aware of.
 
Bart B. said:
setting case shoulder back about .0015" to .0020" each time.
Click to expand...
This is the key of course, not moving the shoulder too much each time. Not over working the neck will prolong neck life as well, but neck splits are far less worrisome than case head separations from thinning of the case wall.
 
Thanks to everyone for the help. Finally ran some test rounds, which worked very well and showed no signs of pressure. Ended up liking 24.8grs of H335, 223 case trimmed to 1.745 and total OAL of 2.225. Ran thru some rounds today and all performed great. Limited to 25 yards at the indoor range I belong to, want to to get outdoors at some point and see what they do at longer range.
 
I have in the past seperated the brass by length and load like length cases then reset the seat and crimp each time Ive started loading the new case lengths. Correct way, no. If in a pinch it will get a few loaded.
 
You can solve your seating length problem by trimming to a set length ... but unless your brass is over the max length ...

You can also solve your problem by NOT crimping ... even bullets with a cannelure ... crimping is not needed if you have the proper neck tension to start with .... I've loaded a "bunch" of .223 Rem and never crimped any of them ... all that is needed is to make sure the edge of the brass is at least parallel with the neck so it does not hang up ... if your brass is properly deburred ..that won't be much of a problem ...

Granted ... my ammo is not hauled in the bed of a duce&1/2 over rugged mountains nor is it flooded with water ...like it may be in military service ... matter of fact I treat it really good as I want it to preform well when I shoot it ...
 
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