lc9 +P

[jiminhobesound]

I had decided with y'alls help to get a kahr cw9 and ruger announces the LC9. I emailed them and they told me do not use +P and that it would reduce the gun life by fifty percent. I think they made a mistake in this regard

 

[gofastman]

it would reduce the gun life by fifty percent

sounds about right

 

[Elmer]

If this is true, it will limit LC9 users to using ammunition with better terminal performance.

Darn....

 

[LCPor9mm]

+P

I was a little disappointed myself that Ruger chose not to +P rate it but really the difference in performance between the standard round and +P isn't that much. I wonder if that do not use +P means no NATO also?

 

[IdahoLT1]

The CW9 is +p rated. +p ammo helps a lot in shorter barreled guns. You will likely see standard velocities(non +p in a 5" barrel) using +p ammo in a 3.5" barrel.

 

[gofastman]

+p ammo helps a lot in shorter barreled guns. You will likely see standard velocities(non +p in a 5" barrel) using +p ammo in a 3.5" barrel.

simply not true.
still, I do use +P in my short barrel guns.

 

[LCPor9mm]

3.5' w +P = 5''

The CW9 is +p rated. +p ammo helps a lot in shorter barreled guns. You will likely see standard velocities(non +p in a 5" barrel) using +p ammo in a 3.5" barrel.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get that info?

 

[IdahoLT1]

In my CW9(3.6"), I was chronoing ~1120fps-1140fps using Speer 124gr +p ammo. In my beretta 92(4.9"), I was chronoing ~1130fps-1150fps using Sellior & Bellot 124gr FMJ. Maybe the S&B was a little watered down or my chrono isnt well calibrated but those were the results I was getting.

 

[LCPor9mm]

Speed kills (hopefully)

In my CW9(3.6"), I was chronoing ~1120fps-1140fps using Speer 124gr +p ammo. In my beretta 92(4.9"), I was chronoing ~1130fps-1150fps using Sellior & Bellot 124gr FMJ. Maybe the S&B was a little watered down or my chrono isnt well calibrated but those were the results I was getting.

With regards to chronos I had a guy at the range tell me Saturday "These things dispell a lot of myths". I believe that to be true, however the test case you have described above, while interesting, seems to me to be a less than accurate test. You would almost have to "roll your own ammo" to get credible results, because as you have pointed out one may have been watered down as compared to industry standards. At the very least I would think a number (say 5 or 6 each) of factory +P and non +P loads should have been run through the chrono from each gun before reaching any conclusion. No I won't pay for your ammo.

 

[Elmer]

I was a little disappointed myself that Ruger chose not to +P rate it but really the difference in performance between the standard round and +P isn't that much.

Actually, not true.

The top 147 grain non +P rounds will exhibit better penetration, while expanding to a similar or better degree than the +P or +P+ loads.

The non +P rounds do fall short on noise, blast, and recoil though. So if you enjoy that, the +P or +P+ is a better choice......

 

[LCPor9mm]

???

Actually, not true.

So, what you are saying is given the SAME weight bullet, the slower one has better penetration?

 

[gofastman]

So, what you are saying is given the SAME weight bullet, the slower one has better penetration?

sometimes, yes

 

[Dogguy]

So, how often you planning on shooting +P ammo in the Ruger?

If you're like most of us, you only shoot your expensive carry ammo on an occasional basis. When you shoot at the range, you'll be shooting the cheapest target ammo you can find--and a lot of that is in the low range of standard loadings.

Why worry about it? Even if you shoot +P regularly, the gun won't fall apart all of a sudden. It will most likely just start to loosen up a little at a time. If you shoot +P infrequently, I doubt there will be any perceptible wear in the gun at all. And, let's face it, this little Ruger is no collector's piece you would want to keep in pristine condition.

I would stay away from +P+ ammo (no one really has a definition for that loading anyway) but I would have no problem using +P in the Ruger.

 

[Elmer]

So, what you are saying is given the SAME weight bullet, the slower one has better penetration?

sometimes, yes

Yup.

But of course, the heavier bullets will usually penetrate more then the normally lighter +P or +P+.

But you just don't get that fun ball of flame.....

 

[LCPor9mm]

???still

Quote:
So, what you are saying is given the SAME weight bullet, the slower one has better penetration?

sometimes, yes

Sometimes yes, as in pointy shapes penetrate deeper than wadcutter shapes?

Or sometimes yes as in when bullet weight, shape, and length of barrel are all the same the bullet with the lighter powder charge will penetrate farther.

The only way I can see that happening is if at certain barrel lengths (which I don't think we discussed) the extra powder in the +P's is totally wasted in flash. Which IF that's the case is supportive of my original point, being; there is not that much difference between the standard and +P. I will concede that I thought there would be a slight gain with the +P and I would have to see the actual test information before I believe that's the case.

 

[LCPor9mm]

+P

Yup.

But of course, the heavier bullets will usually penetrate more then the normally lighter +P or +P+.

OK I get that whole mass vs speed thing but given ALL other factors being equal, ie: 124 gr vs 124gr +P or 147gr vs 147gr +P +P wins.
NO?

 

[Elmer]

Sometimes yes, as in pointy shapes penetrate deeper than wadcutter shapes?

Or sometimes yes as in when bullet weight, shape, and length of barrel are all the same the bullet with the lighter powder charge will penetrate farther.

The only way I can see that happening is if at certain barrel lengths (which I don't think we discussed) the extra powder in the +P's is totally wasted in flash. Which IF that's the case is supportive of my original point, being; there is not that much difference between the standard and +P. I will concede that I thought there would be a slight gain with the +P and I would have to see the actual test information before I believe that's the case.

The problem is that with hollow point bullets designed to expand at pistol velocities, increasing the velocities will often speed up expansion, reducing penetration.

But certainly bullets will vary depending on their design.

 

[AJChenMPH]

Bump to the top and back on topic -- from the LC9 manual:

Note on +P Ammunition: Although the RUGER® LC9 is capable of functioning with 9mm +P ammunition, a steady diet of +P ammunition will shorten the endurance life of the RUGER® LC9.

http://www.ruger.com/products/_manuals/lc9.pdf -- top of page 12.

 

[Ben86]

I doubt it can't handle an occasional bit of range practice with some +P ammo, Ruger is probably just saying that so they don't have to make any promises.

I think that +P ammo is more trouble than it's worth in a small gun anyway; not worth the extra recoil. This doesn't disappoint me. The small gain in velocity is not worth the decreased ability to make quick follow up shots.

 

[wow6599]

What's "the life" of a LC9? The last gun I bought with a factory stated lifespan was a Kel-Tec P-11 years ago.....I think (could be wrong) they were rated for 6000 rds.

Two things come to mind - 1) I don't like Ruger saying that +p rds will shorten the life by 50% and 2) if you are going to shoot +p, just jump up about 4 lbs or so with a diferent recoil spring.

 

[Elmer]

What's "the life" of a LC9? The last gun I bought with a factory stated lifespan was a Kel-Tec P-11 years ago.....I think (could be wrong) they were rated for 6000 rds.

Ruger makes no such statement, and I've never heard of them failing to repair or replace a gun that failed for anything less than abuse, and shooting wouldn't be abuse.

I'd be concerned with a gun that was sold with a finite amount of rounds being stated as it's service life.

Two things come to mind - 1) I don't like Ruger saying that +p rds will shorten the life by 50%

That's good, as Ruger doesn't say it in their literature.

 

[wow6599]

Elmer, read the OP about the 50% life reduction.

 

[No4Mk1*]

I would expect +P ammo to shorten the life of all guns regardless of if the manufacturer admits to such or not. Regardless, you will spend so much more money on ammo during the life of a pistol that if it wears out at 10k or 100k rounds you will still spend much more money on ammo than replacement pistols.

Regarding the above chronograph comparison, using two different brands of ammo has already been mentioned, but also consider guns with hexagonal rifling should give higher velocity than standard rifling.

 

[Ben86]

but also consider guns with hexagonal rifling should give higher velocity than standard rifling.

I thought it was polygonal. And I'm not completely sold on that theory either. They are easier to clean though.

 

[Elmer]

Elmer, read the OP about the 50% life reduction.

I read it.

It just doesn't match what their written literature says.