LCP carriers - Hollow Point or Ball?

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Its not what you lose if a HP fails to expand, that's not the problem

It's what you give up IF IT DOES expand that's the issue
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Right. There is a lot of 380 ACP ammo that stops short of 10" of penetration but the Federal Hydra-Shok and the Hornady XTP (especially Precision One's loading of the XTP) are examples of 380 hollow points that penetrate to around 12 inches or past 12 inches when they expand. When the Hydra-Shok fails to completely expand (through denim), depending on if there is partial expansion or no expansion, the bullet is penetrating between 13 inches and 19 inches. I don't know if those 5 shots can be extended to represent your statistical chances of any particular bullet performance, but for the sake of argument if you were using the 380 Hydra-Shok you'd have an 80% chance of the bullet penetrating between 13.5 to 15.25 inches and only a 20% chance of the bullet penetrating to around 19 inches. If you're using an FMJ you have somewhere around a 99% chance that the bullet is going to penetrate > 19 inches every time. The Lehigh Extreme Penetrator may be an exception to this - but regular ball 380 ammo generally zips right through 18" denim covered gel blocks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7uG-13LjsQ
 
all of this hollow point penetration talk is without bone. I have seen x-rays of 40 S&W hollow points stopped by bone. the .380 will struggle to penetrate bone with hardball ammo, let alone a expanded hollow point that is lighter. out of a 3 inch barrel it is a very weak round. the ft/lbs of energy are not even up to standards for hunting 75+ lb game animals. so take that for what it is.

I have a LCP and i carry it to a few places because of how small it is. But i know unless a CNS hit is involved, most any attacker is likely to keep on coming for several seconds to minutes. even with a lung or heart shot. so going threw the skull/sternum/ribs/arms/wrist/hand and getting to the spinal cord/vitals or going threw a skull is priority on such a weak round because those shots happen, I carry hardball.

So hard ball all the way for me. i do not stray from hard ball ammo until i get 200+grain bullets at around 900-950 FPS. to me YMMV, that is a point of bone not causing such a problem to bullet path.
 
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the .380 will struggle to penetrate bone with hardball ammo.
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trying to go threw the skull/sternum/ribs/arms/wrist/hand and getting to the spinal cord/vitals or going threw a skull is priority on such a weak round...
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So, trying to penetrate bones is bad, but one should... try to penetrate bones? :confused:
 
@typhun

Just wondering if there are any reasons for not alternately loading between FMJ & HP in the magazine?
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I would flip the question around and ask what reasons there are to consider doing this.

As stated above, I use ball ammo because I've not yet been able to locate and test in my weapon the XTPs that the video posted above indicates are optimal for carry in a .380. But when I ameliorate that, I'll make the switch. Ball=reliability, no concerns of lack of penetration, some concern of over penetration. The right XTP load=reliability (after testing for such), no concerns of lack of penetration, and less concern of over penetration. For those who've made the leap and tested for reliability, the right JHP clearly ameliorates the concerns of many other hollow points. So having made the jump, why give up those incremental advantages with candy striping the magazine?
 
psyopspec said:
So, trying to penetrate bones is bad, but one should... try to penetrate bones? :confused:
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no, you take it to literally. no one ever aims for bone but they do and will be hit. so carry a bullet that has the best chance to handle the situation.
 
^^ Gotcha. I think I agree. .380 isn't my preferred caliber, but even though it's suboptimal there's no change from aiming COM.
 
9 inches is enough

When my agency was testing ammo, it reviewed the many gunfights we had on record and concluded that if a round made 9 inches of penetration, it was fine. I cannot remember any failures to stop, though their must have been some, so it was not a big deal.
Our previous round was a .38 Special +P+ which had a number of spectacular stops and failures. It became a big issue, until we changed ammo. Then, no complaints. We found 9 inches worked fine.

Jim
 
Hornady critical defense hollow points,the same round as all my other self defense pistols.
 
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4336-BUG-s-380-ACP-vs-38-Sp
Here's an internet forum thread which discusses the .380 caliber.
As I'm familiar with the thread's author/OP, I'd go with his recommendation of fmj ammo.
With that said, while I've been tempted, I've never owned or even shot a .380. Instead, I've gone to .38 Special and now, with the small 9mm handguns available, I've gone with a Glock 43 as my smallest semi auto. I generally use the G43 as a backup gun.

To summarize, if it must be .380, I'd go fmj.
Otherwise, if possible, go 9mm (Luger aka Parabellum aka 9x19).
 
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....0-ACP-vs-38-Sp

Here's an internet forum thread which discusses the .380 caliber.
As I'm familiar with the thread's author/OP, I'd go with his recommendation of fmj ammo.
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That thread is from 2012. I don't remember seeing any ballistics tests of 380 ACP from 3" barrels back then. There is data now that contradicts his characterization of .380 hollow points, and new bullet designs have even been created since that thread was written.
 
That thread is from 2012. I don't remember seeing any ballistics tests of 380 ACP from 3" barrels back then. There is data now that contradicts his characterization of .380 hollow points, and new bullet designs have even been created since that thread was written.
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I think this is vital to point out. Tech and the way it is tested changes at an increasingly rapid rate these days. It's easy to find internet posters on gun forums who will never be convinced that 9mm is sufficient, that won't trust a plastic pistol, or either love or hate the AR platform based on when they had time with it in the military. These people don't evolve; they're welcome to their opinions, but it's also allowable and encouraged to consider new info every so often. "When the facts change, I change my mind."
 
Captains1911 said:
Adequate meaning 12" minimum, which is generally considered standard protocol. I think all too often people fail to adapt to changing technology, and 380 defensive ammo technology has taken off in recent years.
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Minimum means just that THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM to be considered adequate for personal defense.

You may be convinced by advertising that just enough to barely get by is good enough. Many of us prefer a bit more insurance than just enough
 
I don't go with the FBI and their 12 inches Other government agency's say less if fine, and their in more shootouts than FBI . FBI likes to shoot thru things like windshields car doors and other some what hard targets before shot reaches BG . I doubt You will ever bee shooting thru those things

Hornady Critical Defense or Corbon DPX True no +P 380 But Corbon loads to SAMMI specs. Other company load lower than SAMMI max specs. One reason Corbon higher FPS than many company's.
 
380 defensive ammo technology has taken off in recent years.
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My opinion is it will only get better. In the late 80s and early 90s the FBI was driving bullet design and development for the 9mm and 40 S&W, and we saw tremendous improvements in bullet designs and terminal performance. IMO though, the ammo manufacturers didn't put nearly as much research or development effort in the 380 ACP. They did however, slap their name brands on the 380 cartridges, which gave the impression that 380 rounds like PDX and Golden Saber were going to perform as well as their big caliber cousins. What we saw though is that many of these name-brand cartridges don't do any better than any of the other 380 loadings out there, and don't do that well in general.

Now we've seen a boom in the 380 ACP pocket pistol market with many owners who are intelligent shooters with good knowledge of terminal ballistics now looking for 380 cartridges that perform well out of the 3" barrels.

I think that is creating a market for someone to create bullet designs and loadings that penetrate 4 layers of denim and penetrate to around 13" of gel with some (controlled) expansion, out of 3" barrels.

If Hornady can design a .380 round that penetrates between 13 and 14 inches - it can be done. I would think Federal and Winchester would be embarrassed that their Ranger "T" and HST perform so poorly compared to the Hornady XTP. I would think they would go back and apply their expertise to those rounds to create an improved 380 ACP cartridge.
 
The problem is bullets may get more advanced and reliable

But

100grs and 900fps or so still remains a constant and that's only so much energy to drive an expanded bullet through tissue.

IF 380 steps up into the big leagues it will not be from making bullets expand. It will be with non expanding cavitating projectiles like polycase is developing
 
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