Lead bullet accuracy vs jackets observation and ?

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ANATION

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So just an observation with my King Cobra 3 inch. Reload 158 LRN bullets at 25 yards are more accurate than any jacketed bullet that I reload at any weight. I know there are a lot more load combinations I can try but I'm just stunned a bit that my anemic loads out shoot my zingers. Is this common? I have over 30 years experience shooting rifles from a bench but only have been shooting revolvers off a bench for the past year. So my knowledge is limited. Thanks
 
I'm guessing you may be anticipating the recoil of your stout loads and this may be part of the accuracy difference. Very common in short barreled magnum revolvers.
 
I shoot a lot of lead and some jacketed hand loads. So, I get a lot more accuracy with my lead cartridges and I think if I really took the time I could make my jacketed loads as accurate, but probably not more accurate than my lead reloads.

But now that I think about it, I have never loaded lead and jacketed bullets of the same weight and configuration with the same exact powder charges and primers to see which may or may not be more accurate.
I may have to try this just for fun.
 
I’ve had the same observations in my revolvers; my lead medium and low velocity loads have been more accurate than my jacketed bullet loads are across the board.

(I’ve also noticed in manuals that rifle loads with the highest velocities aren’t often the most accurate ones with every bullet. With rifles it seems like the powder/bullet relationship has a lot more to do with
accuracy than the bullets’ final velocity does.)

It could be recoil anticipation with heavier handgun loads, it could be better bullet fit/obturation, it could just be dumb luck, I really don’t know. :)

Stay safe.
 
At least 90 percent of my revolver hand loads are with cast bullets. Started out that way because lead bullets were so much cheaper (or I could pour my own) than jacketed. Then found I got better accuracy with lead sized up by .001 or .002. Since this was all target work, relatively mild loads gave the best result. Probably the softer recoil helps.

Once in a while (although less often as I get older) I like shooting some fire breathing loads in 357 or 44 magnum and use jacketed bullets. But that is for fun or to demonstrate handgun power, not for careful accuracy. The jacketed loads will still be decently accurate but not as much as milder lead ammo.

Jeff
 
I believe supersonic loads out of handguns are in general less accurate than sub-sonic loads. But not in and of themselves, but due to human factors. Generally speaking.

The physiological response to supersonic shock waves hit the face and brain, causing a small amount of trauma, and sometimes a little bit of pain. You can train enough to overcome this, and I had at one point.....but I like leaving my indoor range without a headache if at all possible. It's similar to blink when an object approaches your eye...it just happens. Flinching happens involuntarily when things start happening to your body that it doesn't like.

I choose "heavy for caliber" rounds if possible if I'm nearing the supersonic threshold, to keep them beneath if I can. If you have loads that are "right on the line" a good example is 180gr 40 S&W or 147gr 9mms with extreme spread, some go above and some go below, and you can easily see and feel the difference even out of the same magazine.

Swaged pure soft lead going around 700fps with a fast burning powder is a thing of beauty out of a .38 but hard cast alloyed bullets going that slow, with lower pressures won't perform as well, generally speaking. They are better for me at 900-1100fps with higher pressures giving the harder bullet that requires more pressure to push through the rifling, and a tad slower powder works better.
Jacketed bullets also like to be pushed a little harder, due to more resistance.
Some of the least accurate loads ive ever fired were jacketed bullets with a very light mouse-fart charge in .38 special.
I may be a bit off on my understanding of the science, but I know enough to know there is a difference and I react accordingly, and it works well for me. Obviously others have different experiences, and I fully understand that as well.
 
My cast boolits shoot as accurately or better than Jacketed bullets. I've weighed lot of bullets and its hard to get more consistent weights than Sierra but my cast boolits weigh equal them. I'm talking handguns here. I've never really gotten into cast for rifle.
 
Cast bullets also offer some very nice designs that aide in accuracy. SWC’s and Wadcutter that have longer bearing surfaces yet still offer less resistance than jacketed. They will obturate or “slug up” in a barrel making a better fit. Hollow based Wadcutter’s are a perfect example. Flat based lead bullets have always shot better for me then beveled base for that reason, a side benefit is less leading in most cases. I also don’t usually use super hard cast bullets for that reason. However this is all at 1000 FPS or less. Anything more I look to jacketed or in some applications gas checks. I have never pushed any lead to 1200 FPS or more so I cannot say if at those velocities there would be any difference assuming the particulars lead bullet was appropriate for the speed.
 
Came here to talk about obturation and sizing, but others are already covering it.

I've reloaded lead almost exclusively for most of my reloading career. Once I wrapped my head around the basic concepts of sizing, bullet hardness, chamber throats, obturation, and cost savings, it just became a no brainer to me. For any shooting application where I can get by with lead, lead is the way I will go. Have had nothing but good experience.
 
Do not overlook that the forcing cone is important for the accuracy with each kind of bullet material. An 11 degree cut is a compromise that works for both but favors lead. Jacketed bullets do better with steeper angles.
 
Just for kicks today I loaded 30 rounds of .38 Special with 158 grain lead RNFP over 4.2 grains of Unique. I also loaded 30 rounds of .38 with 158 grain Berry’s TMJ RN bullets over 4.2 grains of Unique. I know lead and copper coated operate at different speeds over the same powder charge but this was just for fun to see if accuracy was way better or worse between the two.
According to ReloadAmmo.com the 158 TMJ bullet should travel at about 800 fps with 4.2 grains of Unique and a lead 158 grain bullet should be around 920 fps with 4.3 grains of Unique. At 4.2 grains I figured it was a tad under 900 fps.
I didn’t bother trying to match FPS. I was going for using the same powder charge…Safely.

Sample targets of each:
809C0BB1-F0AD-46EA-AE87-F58CCB0C7FE4.jpeg

B2D47286-567A-487F-867E-16DDBB19C39D.jpeg

Now, these were shot offhand using a two handed grip. I am no expert marksman with a handgun.
It was a fun little test. Pretty sure I had that flyer on the lower one because these two girls in the lane next to me keep jerking their target back and forth using the toggle switch. Not sure why but I am pretty sure they managed to break the target retrieval system on that lane by the time I left.
 
Couple thots-
Shoot a great deal in an indoor range; have drifted to jacketed or plated ammo at least on that account.
Our Club has decent ventilation, but it wasn't always so. The air got pretty thick, with cast boolits and lube, when the old Revolver League was popular. Our range officer recast lead from the tank, and sold us the boolits. Some of that lead had 100 miles on it, 50' at a time.
Been satisfied with plated/jackets, but not shooting Bullseye much, either.
For the OP, benching a handgun is a challenge. What works for me; rest the barrel (or auto frame) on a rest, and put your wrists on sandbags; don't let the butt touch anything. It takes some fiddling to get a really steady rest.
Moon
 
Both can be exceptionally accurate. Based on my experience shooting cast and jacketed bullets in specialty pistols and rifles though I would have to say in terms of ultimate accuracy that jacketed will usually take home the prize, especially when you push the range out there. I have shot many sub moa groups at 100 yards with the contender in my avatar with a 13" 357 maximum barrel shooting 180 grain XTP's at 1900-2100 FPS. I'm sure there are people shooting that well or better with cast, but I bet they are working at it a lot harder than me. In rifles I've gotten very good accuracy with cast bullets, but I don't think I've ever experienced a time where I've shot both and couldn't get at least marginally better with jacketed. Even so I am a fan of cast and use it in a lot of guns.

I shot this group at a 50 yard indoor range from the bench with this 4.2" SP101. I think this load was a 140 grain XTP

image.jpg

Same gun at 20 yards. I think this was a 125 grain XTP above 20.5 grains of 296

image.jpg
 
I shoot lead HBWC out of 357 magnum cases as thats all I could find. I also tried some 158 grain XTPs at magnum loads. The very most accurate XTP load shot a very tiny bit better than the HBWC load during load testing. It’s so small I think the winner could just swap places on a given day. With both loads fired at 25 yards from the bench using 6 o’clock holds the POI shift between loads is rather significant. I clearly can’t just swap back and forth.

8E22E9DC-1974-4E9E-ABE0-63391621481C.jpeg 20A13778-A778-4249-9FA7-721C0DAB1275.jpeg
 
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I have found that cast is a good bit more accurate then jacketed in all my shooting. I cast them fairly hard (lyman #2) and size them as fat as they'll chamber. I have put jacketed against cast with same weights (both powder and bullet weight) and cast come out on top each time.
 
I guess I'll go against the grain here, a bit.

I am a die-hard cast shooter, but I suspect that on average, jacketed bullet loads are more accurate. That is to say, if a tyro buys a box of jacketed and a box of cast - or if he handloads some off-the-shelf "hardcast" bullets to go with his jacketed handloads - he will probably get better accuracy with the jacketed rounds. In my experience, most of the time cast bullets need to be tailored to a specific application to get the best results, while jacketed bullets are usually close enough right from the start.

There are some big exceptions, like HBWCs in light loads, that will tend to be exceptionally accurate in any reasonable gun.

I absolutely agree with the point about recoil, though. I believe a lot of folks badly underestimate the effect of recoil on all but the most hardened shooter. For the occasional shooter, even the difference between "target" .38 Specials and "full power" .38 Specials is enough to make a big difference on target.
 
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