"Lead bullets will ruin your gun." Help me refute my old man...

[BHPshooter]

Okay, I went to the sporting goods store today to pick up some more hornady slugs, and saw that they had a tub of 500 cast lead bullets for under 20 bucks. That's a ton cheaper, so I got both.

I knew when I got them, though, that my Dad would give me hell. He says that "lead bullets ruin your gun -- lead gets into the bore, and you can't get it out."

I said, "That's what solvent's for."

"Yeah, I used solvent, and there's still lead in my deer rifle." He walked off.

COME ON NOW, if lead bullets ruined guns, then people wouldn't use them. What did they use before jacketed bullets?

***On to my point: I am 99% positive that lead is A-OK. I don't have a polygonal barrel, so what is there to be afraid of, other than saving money?

I'm right, aren't I? How can I explain to my O.F. Dad that lead is okay?

:banghead: Wes

 

[bountyhunter]

Lead does not permanently damage a barrel. It does, of course, release in vapor with each discharge and gain it's way into the body by breathing the vapor. But, it only causes permanent and irreversible brain damage as it accumulates over time.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Opinion

Lead easier on the gun than most jacketed bullets.

Lead from most modern primers far greater health hazard.

Sam

 

[clubsoda22]

i think your dad needs to use a better solvent. Anyway, lead is dirty and a pain to clean, but it won't ruin your gun (unless you have polygonal rifling)

 

[Standing Wolf]

"Yeah, I used solvent, and there's still lead in my deer rifle." He walked off.

I'd guess he needs to do a better job of cleaning his gun. Nobody ever said getting the lead out is easy: merely that it needs to be done.

 

[Old Fuff]

Properly alloyed and lubricated bullets are far easier on a barrel then jacketed bullets. In a rifle however they will sometimes cause excessive leading if the bullet doesn’t have a “gascheck†on the base. This is a small copper cup that is swaged on when the bullet is lubricated and sized. Get a copy of Lyman’s handbook. It explains the advantages of lead bullets - and also some disadvantages. But in general you are right, in most handgun barrels lead bullets are the way to go when it comes to target practice and training, and are less expensive too shoot.

 

[Jim Watson]

Cast bullets for rifle calibers is a whole different game. Everything must be just right, you can lead foul a .30-06 with errors in alloy, lubricant, sizing diameter, mold style, powder choice, powder charge, bad luck in barrel condition or finish and probably some others I haven't thought of. And firing a lead bullet down a copper fouled barrel is the first one that comes to mind. Bulk cast bullets in rifle calibers but made with common pistol alloy, lubricant, and quality control are rarely satisfactory. Not never, I have some good examples, but they are not common and I was just lucky to hit on them.

There are very few common solvents that will really remove lead. It is a matter of getting something to penetrate under the lead and let it be brushed out. Kroil is said to be good. My FLG says that if you get leading, remove all you can with brush and solvent, then apply JB Bore Paste. It will scour out the remaining lead and polish the bore so it will foul less the next time.

Cast pistol bullets are a piece of cake. IF you do them right.

Read the book.

 

[P95Carry]

Leaving aside some of the hassles of ''de-leading'' a bore after much use of hardcast bullets .. IMO the bore hardly notices the effects in a wear sense .. great for practice....... and more. I have shot 1,000's of cast 158 swc's thru a 686 I used for compo's way back ...... doubt the bore event noticed!!

I use one or two plain base varieties (9mm, 38 and one of my 44 profiles) .. rest are gas checked. I consider that the check not only protects bullet base from hot gasses but also improves obturation ...... and ....... also helps with slight ''scouring'' of any lead build up ..... making cleaning less tedious.

I experiment a bit with cast bullets (checked) in both .303 and .308 ....... and if they are sized suitably and not driven above 2,000 .... they perform quite well. Worst part of cleaning for rifle tho is the shere bore length ... whereas with handguns I can use Lewis (or Hoppes) deleader .... with the brass gauze .... and that makes the job very easy.

 

[Josey]

Hey Tell 50,000 SASS members about how lead bullets are bad. LRN 158 gr were all we used in the police academy 38s too.

 

[timbo]

What's the deal with lead and polygonal rifling? I stay away from it to keep things clean but I didn't know there was anything wrong with it.

 

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

The polygonal thing is kind of unproved. The wierd rifling Glock uses is a problem with lead, and people call it polygonal, so now the stigma stuck to everything else.


A good in-between is copper washed or plated bullets. Almost as cheap as cast, soft enough to wear the bore less than jackets and cleaner.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

If I didn't shoot some lead bullet's, I could not
justify my shooting expenses! I use to cast my own
lead bullet's; but now days I buy the commerical type
lead bullet's as produced by Mangus.

After shooting these bullet's, I make darn sure that
my firearms are totally clean!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Mike Irwin]

Tell your old man to learn how to clean and gun and maybe he won't have problems...


Couple of caveats...

Don't use cheap, soft, swaged bullets. The leading is pretty incredible.

Don't drive your reloads too fast, even with hard lead bullets, of you'll get leading.

DO NOT, if you have a leaded bore, try to 'shoot' the leading out! Stupid maneuver.

 

[Riphalman]

It's true..........

lead bullets will ruin your bore. After 20 years of hard cast lead bullets through my old Colt Gov't, I'm pretty sure I can see a little wear. Why, at this rate, this barrel won't even last another 100 years!

 

[Jim K]

Hi, thefumegator,

What kind of gun and load is your dad talking about? Firing lead bullets in rifles at high velocity, even with gas checks, will deposit lead in the bore pretty quickly, and it is a bear to get out unless an electric type bore cleaner is used.

In pistols, on the other hand, at reasonable velocity, lead bullets do no harm and are a way to shoot while keeping costs reasonable.

But lead is poisonous. Keep the casting area well ventilated, never breathe lead fumes, wear gloves when handling bullets, and make sure bullets are fired into ground that is not part of your water supply. If possible, recover lead bullets and recycle the metal.

Jim

 

[goon]

I read somewhere that the gun made before 1900 with the most surviving examples is the Brown Bess Musket.
They didn't have jacketed bullets then.
Do the math.

 

[coldshot03/04]

What C.R. Sam said.

ps
Just tell your dad to get the lead out!! (pun intended) Hoppes makes a solvent for lead removal.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Regarding polygonal bores and lead, go to The Firing Line and look for the classic thread, Why Glocks Go KaBoom. It's a good read.

BTW, heavy metals are your friends. If your bbl leads up, use Chore Boy to remove it.

 

[Hal]

hmmm,,,

I use 17 gr of 2400 under a swaged lead .430 dia. Hornady 240 gr slug w/out a gas check and CCI standard primer in new brass.

Figure it's doing about 1400 or so fps out of my 16" Trapper.

I better tell it it's supposed to lead the barrel.....

 

[BHPshooter]

Hi, thefumegator, What kind of gun and load is your dad talking about?

He's talking about my Browning HP in 9mm.

He has decided to give me a break, but still thinks it will ruin my gun. Man, I hope I'm not that stubborn and senile when I hit my mid-forties.

Wes

 

[happy old sailor]

.357 and up i use a hard bullet. below 1000 fps, as in .38 and .45 i use a less hard bullet. reason: bullet must obturate and fill the bore. drive a soft bullet and it will strip and not take the rifling. what a mess.

a ton of lead will make 70,000 200 gr. bullets, as an average. so, i can safely say i have shot tons of lead bullets since the late 50's, all reloads. yes, i had leading in the beginning, but, once i started paying attention and reading, my problems ceased. any probs i have now run from very slight to none. all correctable with a little change here and there.

try to mark the base of the bullet with your thumbnail. if it marks easy, it is soft. if it barely marks, it is medium soft/hard. no mark, tuff stuff. some are so hard they kinda ring when dropped on a hard surface. the latter are good for Rugers with a strong dose of whatever in them.

pick your load according to the hardness test. check for leading. at the first trace, back off the load a little. if no leading, up the load a little. you will find a happy medium. then after a thousand rounds, remove the barrel and show it to your dad. if that does not convince him, no argument will.

oh, and admit that he was correct about soft lead bullets. explain the difference. allow him to save face. after all, he is your dad.

 

[Iggy]

I'm bettin' your Dad gets smarter as you get older!!

Mine did!!!