lead "plated" bullets

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bender

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I am just now getting back into reloading after many years. I see many new company's such as Precision Bullets, Berry's, and Rainier that make coated lead bullets. They look good.

Way back when I reloaded, I always used jacketed handgun bullets, and rifle bullets. Do these plated lead bullets load as easy as jacketed bullets? Seems to me they would "shave" a little when being seated... but then, I've never loaded plain lead bullets, so I may not know what I'm talking about.

I'm thinking about ordering a bunch of Rainier bullets from Midway for my 9mm and my .45. In your reloading manual, do you use a light "jacketed" bullet charge, or what?
 
I've never used them, but know reloaders who do. They require a bit more bell on the case as they are usually sized .001" over diameter. It's my understanding that the cast lead data is used, but as I say, I've never loaded them.
 
I have not used them either as yet but a buddy uses the 9mm's himself. They seem just fine and were a good price - plus IIRC he loads just same as for the cast regular loadings.

I think of these as ''copper washed'' and the coating is real thin but by all accounts they do reduce any leading quite a bit.
 
It takes a lot of work to get a good load with plated bullets, however, it certainly is possible, and once you do, they shoot every bit as good as any bullet out there for handgun bullets at handgun ranges
They are soft at the nose, so they are prone to deformation if seated and crimped at the same time. Apply even the tiniest bit too much crimp and your groups will open way up.
Push them too hard and your groups will tumble, shoot them in a comped gun, and you'll have leading after the ports.
For progressive loading, provided you can seat and crimp in distinct operations, using a known good load, there's absolutely nothing wrong with them.
The cost savings better warrant all that extra work, however.
 
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Not Bullseye accurate at 50 yards, fine for 25 and IPSC shooting...Berry's are a harder coating than Rainiers and Montana Gold are harder yet. A lot of IPSC shooters use them and comps are not an issue...even in major 9 loadings. Don't overcrimp, especially Rainiers....other than that minor caveat, they load just like FMJ with a normal loading between the lead and FMJ specs...shoot clean, only a little more $$ than lead.
/Bryan
 
I've fired thousands of Berry's 9mm,.40, and .45. I'm using their 124g plated for 9mm, .38, and .357. I load to mid range fmj data. This is from memory so don't do it without checking but I use 4.9g reddot in 9mm and .38, 5g reddot in .45 and .40. I use 2.1g reddot with a 90g plated bullet in .32. All fire excellently using P38s, BHP, Luger, Beretta 96, S&W Airweight, Colt & Ruger38/357s, and Remington /Auto Ord 1911a1s.
 
I have used Berry's in 9mm and like them a lot. I load them around mid range of jacketed bullets loads.
 
Check the Rainier's and Berry's websites FAQs. They will tell you how to load them.

All I shoot is copper-plated. Whatever you can get out of lead you can get out of copper. And, no, or minimal, airborne lead. Since I only shoot indoors I value that greatly.

I don't know about 'walnut' sized groups at 25 yds, but at 7-10 yards I sure can rip the middle out of a target with 9mm, 38 Spec or 45 ACP with plated bullets.
 
I've shot thousands of Rainiers in .40. About 5000 this year alone. I use an undersize sizing die and never had shaving. I'm running 4.3 of Titegroup for 175 power factor. They don't like crimp since the plating is thin and overcrimping can cause instability. Mine shoot as tight as jacketed out of the Clark Barrel.
 
They do have a few benefits compared to lead.
For instance, they have no barrel leading, they keep your seater die cleaner (Don't have to take it apart every few hundred rounds to clean all the lead rings out of it.)
I have never seen one shave during seating, the lead underneath is too soft and would just move out of the way. You can easily dent the copper plating with your thumbnail.
I use medium burn rate powders, a light taper crimp, and starting load data for jacketed rounds.
Convention thinking applied to their use would dictate fast burning powders may cause leading and slow burning powders would either not seal well enough against the back of the bullet, or wouldn't group well because of the heavy crimp necessary for consistant ignition.
Also, they are sized differently than lead or jacketed.
Jacketed bullets run fairly nominal dimensions, and have good dimensional control, as the lead is swaged INTO the jacket. I would assume it's easier to maintain dimensional stability with copper than it is lead. 9mm nominal bullet size would be .355"
Then there's swaged lead which is dead soft, and must be used with target loads, as the lead will vaporize easily, and deposit itself on your barrel like water condenses on a cold cement wall. Swaged lead starts out 1 or 2 thousanths over nominal dimensions, and swages itself to the right size. Dimensional control isn't important, as long as the bullets are indeed, larger, not smaller than the bore diameter. Undersize swaged bullets will lead barrels up in VERY short order.
Cast lead bullets vary wildly in quality, size, hardness, uniformity, and dimensional control. If you buy cast bullets, I wouldn't recommend buying them in large quantities from an unknown source, as the source determines the quality.
Good cast bullets can be tweaked to the gun they are to be loaded in, and to the velocity they are to be loaded at, by a good caster. Casting at home makes sense, as the operator can make good projectiles very inexpensively with a little attention to detail.
If you buy cast lead, they are mostly .001 over nominal dimensions. Sometimes more. So 9mm bullets would be at least .356" with the occasional one .357"

Plated bullets, for the most part, start out as swaged lead cores, and get plated in an arsenic bath with copper ingots up to the desired size. It's a nasty operation.
Then they get 'struck" into their desired profile.
Hollow points are struck again, typically.
Again, they vary wildly in quality by the maker.
Hardness is no longer a factor. Dimensional control is pretty good, as the bullets are 'struck' like modern jacketed hollow points.
They are typically sized slightly larger than jacketed, nominal size for a 9mm bullet would be .3555 on average.
You will occasionally get a few that are undersized, as they are typically not held to the high quality standards as big name JHPs.
For practice rounds, they are better than lead* (Unless you cast it yourself.), and cheaper than jacketed.
 
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I have no idea where "extra work" is needed to load plated bullets. I use Rainier bullets in my 9mm and .45acp. Used the same powder charge that I used with regular jacketed bullets and the loads shoot just as good. No extra belling of the case was needed either.
 
caz223 said:
Again, they vary wildly in quality by the maker.
what brands are considered the good ones? I ordered 100 Rainier .45 200gr from Midway, just to play with and experiment with. My reloading buddy bought some Berry .40s&w and he likes loading them.

Since I live in TX, I don't want to order Precision Bullets, cuz they'll charge me sales tax...
 
I have shot berry's and rainers. I really like both. Shot 10,000 through my 2 XD 45's

Just don't push them in a 357 sig, plating comes right off. 1450fps little to fast for plated.

45's 230 grain I use 5.0gr Accurate #2 but that's my load it may not be safe in other guns.
 
I have one 1911 that dislikes the RN 230 Rainier's...regardless of mag used, I get a nose-into-the-ramp jam once every dozen or so...a combination of the soft plating and their particular nose profile, it's more 'pointy' than Montana or Berry's. Gun has never hung up with those.

It's possible you'll have to experiment with a few types to find what your gun likes...also, Rainier's in 45acp are sized to .451 while Berry's are .452...can matter to accuracy but you have to play with it to find out.
/Bryan
 
Every bullet profile they offer is different.
I can't possibly vouch for a bullet until I shot it, and I to date have never shot a single .45 caliber plated bullet. I have nothing to recommend. I have maybe 1000 or so 200 grain XTPs in .451, and then I've got to start buying them again. The prices are obscene now. I bought them reasonable from a local guy who went out of business. Maybe I'll price a few K of plated to see if I can get them to shoot in .45............
I haven't got a good accurate load with plated bullets in 357SIG (Just over 3 1/2" is my average 124HP rainier bullet group at 15 yards.) , but I don't think the plating is peeling off, I just think that 357SIG and plated bullets are not a good match for each other.
Maybe power pistol will change all that, we'll see.
I *KNOW* for a fact that I'm overcrimping. That's prolly what is causing my groups to be so lax, but I really don't like the idea of setting back a load that starts at 35K of pressure and goes up from there.
 
Crimping doesn't stave off setback...in fact, overcrimping can cause setback. Neck tension is created in the resizer. If it's an ongoing concern, you can get .001 undersized sizing dies.
/B
 
FWIW I use them quite a bit in .45acp and .50 S&W. The only thing I do differently is to make sure I don't "overcrimp" the .50 S&W since it's a roll crimp and I don't want to go through the plating.

I've had nothing but good luck with them.

Have a good one,
Dave
 
I guess I might have pushed the bullet out to fast. I won't even post my load it was hot to say the least. 40,000+psi, wouldn't recomend this. My bore was copper plated after I shot about 50. :D Brass didn't look the greatest either. After that I toned down my load and it worked much better. But again the accuracy wasn't really good.



For the 357 sig I have had really good luck with a low pressure load and precision bullets 125 FP. No real leading just a little bit of the coating left in the barrel.

Any other bullets that are good for the 357 sig. Please keep cost in mind.
 
Here's another source of copper plated bullets. They were called west coast bullets for years.

http://www.xtremebullets.com/index.htm

I used thousands of them since I started shooting IPSC and IDPA in 2002. 9MM 38/357, 40 S&W, and 45 auto. Ranier has the thinnest plating, Berrys is a little thicker, Extreme is the thickest. Berry double strikes SOME of their bullets. What that means is; the lead core is swaged then the plating occurs. After plating the bullet is run through a final size die, IE, double struck. Extreme double strikes ALL their bullets! I don't know if ranier sizes anything after plating.

West coast was bought out by the fella that invented the power belt muzzle loading bullets. He wanted the plating abilities of west coast for his plated areo tip bullets. The marriage didn't work out however, so Red Halliday the former owner bought the plating business back and is now selling under the extreme name. Give Red a call, he's a hoot to talk to! He can straighten out what I just said, maybe tell you that I'm fullo'sh*t!
 
I've used them in .45 rainier 230gr RN.

They actually required me to take out some beloing over the zero jacketed 230gr i had been using.

The important things that they are picky about are crimp, and placing the bullet for seating. You need to get them in there more accurately or you can wind up shaving off a nice sized chunk of bullet with the edge of the case.

Using my hornady LnL-AP, where I bell in it's own stage, it was much less of an issue as the belling was more consistant.

Provided i kept crimp in line, they worked fine and were plenty accurate.
 
Crimping doesn't stave off setback...in fact, overcrimping can cause setback. Neck tension is created in the resizer. If it's an ongoing concern, you can get .001 undersized sizing dies.

Ok, I'll bite, who makes undersize dies for 357sig, and have you actually loaded it?
The short neck of the little troublemaker round is not enough if you don't crimp. You will get setback.
 
I received 100 Rainier .45 200gr bullets from Midway today. They look alright, but I think Berrys look nicer (smoother at least). My reloading buddy uses Berrys in his 40s&w. I've never reloaded either one yet.
 
I bought lee dies with the FCD. Works great with lead, terrible with FMJ.

I made dummy loads first a crimp 5 and left 5 alone. I cycled them through my gun 10 times each and found the none crimped one slipped .002+ - the ones that I crimped didn't slip. Precision 9mm 125gr FP. Accurate #7. Watch OAL to if it is to long it won't work.

What the loads though, and for heavens sake do not ever use resized 40 cases, brass is to thin.
 
Ok, I'll bite, who makes undersize dies for 357sig
No one that I know of...the comment on crimping not being the correct way to manage neck tension was for the original poster who was interested in 9mm and 45.
/Bryan
 
I think I've used all the different plated bullets I could find in 45 200 SWC. All a little bit different in confiquration so you might have to adjust the OAL, depending on the gun you are shooting. Some are .451 and some .452.

I'd buy a little to try before you buy in volume.

All were loaded using lead bullet specs and worked fine.

I now shoot Precision bullets which are cheaper than plated and still encase the lead, greatly reduce lead vapors, which is the only reason to shoot a plated type bullet IMO. Reduces smoke also. Very good bullets IMO.
 
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