Mistake Over-Loading Rainier Bullets

[charliemopic]

Before I found out that Berry plated bullets are to be loaded to the lower or mid data limits like lead bullets I loaded some Rainier plated .45 auto to the published max. It was 9.2grain of Power Pistol behind a 185gr. Rainier HP. Data is from the Speer #14 manual.
My .45 Auto is a 1911A1 clone.
Whats the problem with this? Will the bullets disintagrate in the barrel? Excessive leading?

Thanks Guys

 

[Floppy_D]

You might strip the plating, but I kinda doubt it. 45acp runs on fairly low pressure (compared to 40S&W, and whatnot). If it were me, I'd shoot a couple, check the barrel for leading, and then carry on.

 

[The Bushmaster]

WARNING!!!

To begin with...9.2 grains of Power Pistol is way too high even for a jacketed bullet. My Lyman 48th lists the powder charge at 8.3 and Sierra lists it at 8.2 grains for a 185 grain jacked bullet.

Disassemble those rounds and start again. Even at maximum powder charge of 8.3 grains of Power Pistol will not exceed 1200fps. But you stand a chance of a KA-BOOM with your present loads...(no wonder I don't have a Speer load manual). I'm loading Power Pistol at 7.5 grains and getting well over 930 fps with Rainier 185 grain bullets.

 

[Floppy_D]

Thanks Bushmaster, I didn't even check to see if that was a good load or not.

In that case I'd pull 'em.

 

[arizona98tj]

The bullet won't disintegrate....but I would expect that you would see copper plating loss and thus leading given that you have it at a max loading. IMHO, this is why they make bullet pullers.

 

[RidgwayCO]

Are we saying here that modern Speer load data will lead people to blow up their guns? Boy, that doesn't sound like a very enlightened business practice...

I've personally had very good luck with the Speer manuals, and their recommendations for the Speer 185gr TMJ FN correspond closely with what QuickLOAD computes for the round, as well as what I've observed in my own guns.

My questions for the OP are: Did you start at the listed "Start Charge" (8.2gr of Power Pistol) and work up slowly, looking for signs of excessive pressure as you went? Or did you just pick a charge weight barely below the max and start there?

Power Pistol is a great powder for moderate to full power loads, but you've got to be careful with it. I've attained "book" maximum velocities with much less than the listed max charge weight in a couple of different cartridges. I'm thinking the variations between different lots may be more than we normally see.

Of course, I'd never know any of this without a chronograph...

I'm not trying to be a &%#@ here, but I also don't think it's necessary to slander one of the better reloading component companies.

 

[nofishbob]

When I compare my Speer manual with my Hornady manual, there is usually a significant difference between them, with the Speer always showing larger amounts of powder.

Could be just different testing methodologies.

I generally end up a little below the Hornady max, and way below the Speer max, with my target loads.

Bob

 

[Walkalong]

I didn't even check to see if that was a good load or not.

I load plated bullets with jacketed data in .45. You won't push them too fast with any sane .45 load.

They won't disintegrate.

I don't use Power Pistol in .45. I don't think it is a good choice myself.

 

[Floppy_D]

Easy Walkalong, I'm not the one loading here. I meant that I didn't look up OP's data to verify if it was good or not, he said it was published data and I took his word. If I'm gonna try it, I'm gonna look it up myself.

 

[lgbloader]

I don't use Power Pistol in .45. I don't think it is a good choice myself.

I have to agree with Walkalong. There are more better powders for 45ACP than Power pistol.

LGB

 

[Steve C]

You might strip the plating, but I kinda doubt it.

I've examined many spent bullets lying on the range and every plated bullet regardless of Berry or Ranier manufacturer have exposed lead where the rifling engages it. The copper has to go somewhere and my guess would be in the bore. They are not jacketed bullets by any means.

Current Alliant data is aligned with Speer and uses Speer bullets and they list 9.5 grs PP in both the Speer #13 and Alliants on line data for 185gr GD. My older alliant "free" paper manual 2001 says 9.1grs PP for +P loads in the .45 ACP and 8.6gr max for standard pressure.

Personally I'd have started at a lower powder charge and compared several data sources and then ran them over the chrono rather than arbitrarily picking the max load. Its just plain bad procedure to go max as a first load and even more so if not using identical components to the source data.

If you are shooting a standard 1911 that hasn't been excessively throated its unlikely you'll have a KB unless you're loading cases that have had multiple loadings and then the chance of a case rupture is increased. With a 1911 you will just get extra buffeting and wear on the gun. Since you are not using Speer bullets and may or may not be using CCI primers there's a chance your loads will be much higher pressure and velocity than the Speer data.

I wouldn't begin to shoot a +P level reload in a Glock or other pistol without full case support and even handloaded with all new componets I'd work them up.

 

[jerkface11]

So now only data from Lyman is safe? And to think just a few years ago their data was sticking bullets in the barrel of my .45-70

 

[Walkalong]

Easy Walkalong, I'm not the one loading here.

Agh, I see, read too fast.

I have not seen any plated bullets with lead exposed from rifling marks, but then I don't push them real hard either. I am sure it can happen at excessive velocities.

 

[The Bushmaster]

The Rainier 185 grain plated bullets that i run between 850 to 950 fps do not exibit an exposed lead at the rifling scoring either.

 

[Floppy_D]

I load plated bullets with jacketed data in .45. You won't push them too fast with any sane .45 load.

That's what I was getting at. According to Rainier *clicky* Q3 states that as long as you don't break 1200 or so feet a second, you're good. The low operating pressure and velocity of 45acp is on your side here.

 

[ljnowell]

That's what I was getting at. According to Rainier *clicky* Q3 states that as long as you don't break 1200 or so feet a second, you're good. The low operating pressure and velocity of 45acp is on your side here.

I have recovered .45 plated raniers that were pushed to 1000fps mark and they show no signs of plating seperating at all.

 

[Gewehr98]

I've pushed Berry's plated bullets well over their 1200fps listed max...

Specifically, in a 6" .357 Magnum Desert Eagle, and it was closer to 1600fps.

I didn't get any leading or copper fouling in the bore, and the holes in the paper downrange looked normal.

However, that particular firearm has a polygonal bore, so it may not be as rough on the plating as regular land-and-groove rifling.

Regardless, for screamer .357 loads, I'm back to using jacketed vs. plated, and staying below 1200fps for the latter.

 

[Walkalong]

Regardless, for screamer .357 loads,

I have exceeded some plated bullets limits in .357 even though it was slightly under 1200 FPS. It depends on bullet fit, throat size, smoothness of the throats, forcing cone, etc. Classic keyholing on target.

Autos are more forgiving.