lead safe reloading

[lee n. field]

To make a long story very short while trying to track down the cause of some particular symptoms over the summer, I requested a lead test. A fingerstick lead screening test indicated high levels of lead. I'm awaiting the results of a more accurate blood test. I do _not_ want to give up shooting. I do not want to give up reloading.

I don't shoot indoors, so I'm guessing my exposure from actual shooting is minimal.

I need to start thinking about reducing exposure to lead from reloading. I already don't eat or drink while reloading and I wash up afterwards. I've set up a HEPA room air filter next to the bench (not a cheapie either -- this unit cost us ~$400 about 15 years ago) hoping that this will help keep the particles pulled out of the air.

Jacketed bullets are easy to obtain (although more expensive than cast lead), but how much lead do you actually absorb by handling lead bullets with dry fingers?

My press is a (don't laugh, I've loaded thousands of rounds on it) Lyman Acculine that doesn't have any kind of primer catcher. Spent primers go into the wastbasket below or on the floor or whereever. Should I look into something to manage spent primers better?

Are lead free primers available for reloaders? How does this affect loads in comparison to published load data with regular primers?

Any other thoughts or pointers to good data on lead reduction?

 

[444]

I can't help you at all, but this is disturbing. Is there any other way you could have been exposed to lead ?

 

[mparris71]

Lee n. field,
sorry to hear about this. Keep us updated. I think PMC is going to start supplying lead free primers I haven't seen any around these parts but that ant saying much. here is a link for some information on them http://www.pmcgreen.com/pmcgreen_primers.htm
Mparris

 

[uglymofo]

I know this is a rather glib reply, but I think the source has to be something else unless you've been exposed to millions of spent primers, and dropping them to the floor generates enough dust. In my experience, it shouldn't. The Hornady LNL AP that I use drops the spent primers from the press through a length of flexible vinyl tubing (I bought a longer length of it and fed it into a narrow-necked plastic jug). You might try setting up something like that with your Lyman.

I was an auto painter for 14 years; I'd take a blood test and liver scan every 6 months. During my visits I learned these things, and hope I remember them and relay them correctly:

Skin contact with lead is not enough to contaminate the blood unless you eat during, or don't wash after loading. As I recall, the most common method for contracting lead poisoning is air-borne. The mucous membranes (eyes, nose, mouth) are the easiest 'points of entry' and susceptible to lead vapors. Did you used to cast your own bullets? (I used to cast my own; about 10,000 a year for 8-10 years (but it's not the number, it's the time I spent with my head near the pot). I set up two fans[30 inchers @ 2500cfm, they moved a LOT of air]; one across the room pulled air into the room, and the other, 2 feet away from the melting pot, pulled air out by the window.) There's only a couple things I can think of, and they're related to ventilation--if you didn't have adequate ventilation, that could be a cause. What's your occupation? Did/do you deal with paints? Will a HEPA filter lead?

I hope your test results, though high, are within tolerable limits. If the doctors haven't told you, the body never eliminates lead; whatever amounts you have in your organs are permanent, and accumulative. Good luck.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Here is another that thinks you should look at your life and surroundings for additional source of the lead.

My periodic lead screenings have been clean.
With over 60 years of playin with reloading.

Could be a combination.

Lick your paintbrushes ?

Sam

 

[lee n. field]

Other possibilities: Old house, lead paint (I repainted everything before we moved in 10 years ago). I've should also be reviewing my somewhat sloppy gun cleaning procedures.

The finger prick test is not, they tell me, terribly accurate. I don't have the numbers from the better (but non-free) blood test yet.

The Hornady LNL AP that I use drops the spent primers from the press through a length of flexible vinyl tubing (I bought a longer length of it and fed it into a narrow-necked plastic jug). You might try setting up something like that with your Lyman

The Lyman Acculine is (was, not in their catalog anymore) their lowest end press, a small and simple press that can be dismounted and reconfigured as a hand press. It doesn't have any built in way to prime. I use a ram prime die.

I do not cast bullets. If I did I'd set it up out in the nice drafty garage.

 

[Watchman]

Im going with the others here...

Its GOT to be something else. The exposure to lead while reloading is mimimal when compared to other occupational hazards.

I had a lead test about a year ago. At the time I was concerned because I too have been reloading and casting my own bullets for 20+ years. I thought that that fact alone may cause me to show elevated results.

I took the test because of occupational exposure, it was free to me by the company that I work for. As a machinist at a nuclear plant, I frequently fabricate lead parts and shielding devices for radiocative materials. I grind, drill, mill, turn, and even pour molten lead into various dies that we make. You might say that Ive done everything to lead that can be done. My tests came back "normal". Myself and the other machinists attended an OSHA certified course for people that deal with lead in one way ar another.

Beleive it or not, our greatest concern is the fact that we have lead based paint that has been used on piping. The painters are more at risk than anyone else. They frequently grind lead paint off of equipment and must suit up with the appropriate respiritory equipment.

The greatest lead hazards come from airborne dust that is ingested into the lungs. This in turn reaches the blood supply and starts screwing things up in the body. Other than that, lead contamination into an open wound is hazardous as well as very fine dust that one may get on the skin which can be absorbed if left on for a long amount of time.

Even so, our precautionary measures are simple . We use gloves when handling lead, and when we produce any waste metal, we try to keep it in "chip" form. Even the grinding particals that we make are generally too big to breath in. We keep coolant on it when possible so that any residue is washed away into the coolant trough.

I believe that any exposure that comes from primers would be when they were shot. The spent primers would contain little if any lead after firing. The older primers used to contain small amounts of lead in them but I think that the manuafacturers have gotten away from that for the most part.

Something else to think about. Im told that lead, being a "heavy"metal, never goes away once it's in the body. It is possible that the tests you are getting now could be the result of something that you did or got into a long time ago. Can you think of something that happened a long time ago ?Years ago it wasnt uncommon for toddlers to show high levels from chewing on toys that had lead based paint on them. It was one fo the main reasons that lead additives in paint have basically gone away.

It has been speculated that the one of the reasons for the fall of the roman empire came from the fact that they used lead pipe to transmit their water supplys in the big citys. Also, the common folk used eating utensiles made out of lead.Lead makes you go crazy. It makes it hard to concentrate. There are all kinds of various effects on the body and none of them are good.

Good luck. I wouldnt worry too much about shooting or reloading.

 

[Black Snowman]

If you load, or especially cast, lead bullets it can be absorbed through the skin, although as mentioned, very minimally. I wear nice cheap disposable rubber gloves I buy from the drug store to keep my exposure to a minimum. I usually I am loading jacketted bullets for all the various reasons given for avoiding lead including lead exposure.

Cabela's has Reinier "Lead Safe" bullets reasonably priced plus Star and Zero make excellent and in-expensive conventionally jacketed bullets.

Between these and your other precautions your exposure should drop to near nil.

 

[uglymofo]

It is possible that the tests you are getting now could be the result of something that you did or got into a long time ago. Can you think of something that happened a long time ago ?Years ago it wasnt uncommon for toddlers to show high levels from chewing on toys that had lead based paint on them. It was one fo the main reasons that lead additives in paint have basically gone away.

That's a insightful thought. These lead levels could be the result of an exposure that dates back decades.

I'd also be wary of the pinprick blood tests, but the "axe will fall" when the intravenous bloodwork comes back. There's no denying the results of that kind of a test. Whatever those test results say, unless you are exposed to some kind of "lead exposure incident" in the future, with simple, common-sense precautions, you can keep the lead level permanent where it is.

 

[rayra]

adding to Watchman's historical lesson - lead foil was used for centuries on wine and champagne bottles. Its use has been suggested for the lunacy of the French monarchy in the 1600-1700s ('course, there's always inbreeding)

Thirding the suggestion of another source of exposure. A few basic precautions, as already mentioned, should be enough to prevent contamination from reloading while using lead bullets. Latex gloves alone would greatly reduce any exposure issues. And eating while reloading? that's right on the list of Don'ts. Distractions are Bad.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Remember that tetraethyl lead was used a fuel additive until approx. 1985, and still is in aviation grade gasoline (100octane/LL, 2.0gms /gal)

The finger prick test is susceptable to contamination with what you could have handled recently, so most likely will be a "false high"

Like others have mentioned, if you don't eat, drink, or smoke in proximity with the lead exposure areas, you likelyhood of getting a significant exposure is remote.

Although lead does persist in the body, it is eliminated by a chemical process called "chelation" where the lead is bound to a calcium compound by the liver and excreated. However, this process is indeed slow, and even a modest exposure takes a long time for the body to overcome and in the case of a heavy exposure overwhelms the body's ability to overcome it.
Medications are available to treat a mild to modest exposure, but it too, reqires a prolonged treatment to reduce the buildup.

FWIW; although in ancient times the toxicity of lead was not appreciated, other compounds especially Mercury, was/is thought to have contributed to much more problems. Many mercury compounds were used in the preservation process and in making clothing (ie: the "Mad-hatters") and in the making of feather/leather products and is also believed to have had socialogical implications. Some Saltwater fish are also known to have high naturally occuring mercury levels (ie: Mackeral) and is thought to present a hazard to suspectibale individuals.

A high blood level of lead could be due to household or environmental exposure. (Local industries?, naturally occuring lead in soil in vicinity?, water supplies? occupational exposure?)
Many possibilities

Though I shoot extensively-competitively, fly in small aircraft (Commercial-CFII, MEI),, cast and load my own ammo(about 75M/yr); I've never had an above normal blood level test for lead. Could be that due to individual characteristics and personal actions of precaution I'm just not susceptable.
DON'T: eat, smoke, or drink around area of possible exposure=
DO: use positive ventilation of work area, use dust/face mask, remove and clean clothing worn while casting/loading.
Don't lick fingers, ect !!!!
Wash hands/face well after casting.

 

[Poodleshooter]

I've talked about this with MANY folks at my local range, including some who have had high levels and undergone the metallic removal process to filter their blood. The conclusion reached from practices that they had changed in their shooting lives was that one of the worst things you could do was to shoot in an indoor range. Ventilation system or not, everytime you fire a shot, you get particulate lead from cast bullets or FMJ with exposed lead bases (somewhat worrisome) and fine dust from those lead styphnate (sp?) primers (BAD). The second most common cause that we decided was a problem was tumbling of spent cases in media. Think of all that fine dust that floats up...part of it is primer residue.
Obviously casting and licking your fingers is bad, but it's the airborne stuff that really catches you unawares.
I still tumble, but I use lots of wax and change media frequently. I also avoid indoor ranges like the plague. Ever get that sweet taste in your mouth while shooting indoors? It's lead

 

[M2HMGHB]

I too have suffered from lead poisoning, although with me it was kinda a dumb mistake. I had set up the lead pot close to the house where the wind is blocked and didnt set up a fan to blow the vapors away and i used a tumbler frequently without changing media. When I tumble now it is outdoors. Also there are several newer drugs that treat lead exposure, I was on one for about 3 months back in 2001. There are options if it is bad, I was on the pill form but there is an IV form of it. I would suggest you have a lead test done every 6 months to a year and there are lead swabstciks that turn a pink when there is lead present, for testing the house if you want. Also if I remember right old pottery glazes used lead and some older plumbing used lead pipes. Just some thoughts. Good Luck and keep us updated.

Scott
P.S. I was 15-17 at the time

 

[lee n. field]

the real numbers are in

The real numbers are in. I must be doing something right. Blood lead is at 6 micrograms/decileter (I think those were the units), well within normal.

<whew>

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

Some seem to have the idea that airborne lead is a big problem. If you are actually exposed to lead fumes (not vapors), said fumes can be very hazardous and hence the term "metal fume fever" which was a true hazard in some industries years ago. The good thing about lead, however, is that it does not stay airborne very long because of its weight. When a lead bullet hits a steel plate, a small portion of the bullet will actually become molten and get airborne. Much of it will spatter into bits that fall to the ground immediately, and a large chunk will usually end up in the pit in one lump. It is the small portion that becomes an airborne fume that is dangerous if inhaled. As stated earlier, however, most of the airborne lead particles will fall out quite quickly, and even the most modest of ventilation systems in an indoor range should be able to keep all such fumes away from the shooters - including when they change their targets.

My grandfather worked in a foundry before WW2 and had some bouts with metal fume fever over the years. Luckily, his exposure was never enough to permanently disable him, and he lived to be 79 and die of a heart attack. During my years in the safety and health field of the federal government, I had yearly physicals which included testing for various toxic exposures. In spite of all my years of reloading, casting bullets, and shooting at indoor ranges (including one in my basement), I never had any test result indicating high levels of any toxic substances - including lead.

Like other toxic substances, you have to have some common sense when working with lead. If you do not ingest or inhale it, you should be fine. It really is not likely that humans can absorb enough lead through the skin to be of any danger.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile