Leading, blued vs. stainless

[MartinBrody]

I have found that my 44 magnum stainless leads less with fast lead loads than my 38 special blued gun does with light lead loads. The bullets are from the same maker. Is this a common occurrence or just varies from gun to gun?

I also find it more difficult to remove the lead from the blued gun's forcing cone. I have tried firing jacketed bullets intermittently which seems to help prevent leading when putting a couple hundred rounds downrange at a time. But I worry this is just going to really stick the lead into the rifling in the long run.

 

[Walkalong]

have found that my 44 magnum stainless leads less with fast lead loads than my 38 special blued gun does with light lead loads. The bullets are from the same maker.

Same bullet eh. My guess is the alloy is too hard for your low pressure .38 loads and is causing the leading. Must be about right for your .44 Mag loads.

If the bullet is too hard for the pressure it will not obturate and seal the cylinder and barrel. It will especially lead the forcing cone if this is the case. When this happens you get hot, high velocity gases passing by the bullet "cutting" lead from the bullet just like a cutting torch and depositing it in the cone and barrel. It can be much worse than plain old leading from "too soft an alloy for the velocity" or "not enough lube" type of leading.

You need two different bullets for two different situations.

I have a neat list of approximate hardness's for the velocities in a book around here somewhere. In part 1 of 2 I believe, may be in part 2. They are a great source of info on lead bullet loading.

Found them "Handloaders Bullet Making Annual" # 1 and # 2 - 1990 & 1991

Oh Yea. It's not the gun material.

 

[The Bushmaster]

One other thing...I'm no expert, but I'm not sure I'd send a jacketed bullet down a barrel that is clogged with lead...Just my thoughts...

 

[MartinBrody]

If the bullet is too hard for the pressure it will not obturate and seal the cylinder and barrel. It will especially lead the forcing cone if this is the case.

Thank you, I think this is my problem, lots of leading in the forcing cone and does seem worse the lower pressure the round. I started slow and kept going slower thinking velocity/pressure was the problem, I guess it was the problem but too little instead of not enough.

I'm not sure I'd send a jacketed bullet down a barrel that is clogged with lead

I wouldn't either, I put 6 lead bullets down the tube then a few jacketed. This seems to prevent it from leading, but I am worried about it building up lead in the rifling.

 

[Walkalong]

If leading is light a jacketed bullet will clear out a lot of the lead from the barrel, but not, of course, the forcing cone. Never shoot a jacketed bullet in a severely leaded barrel. PERIOD!

You can use wax gas checks (a pain) or Super Grex to stop leading, but with the .38 Spl. you should be able to find a bullet/powder combination that will work well. I used to shoot a lot of cast bullets in the .38 Spl. with W231 with good results. My alloy was wheelwieghts with some 95/5 solder mixed in and dropping the bullets from the mold into a 5 gallon bucket of water. This worked well for bullets for the .45 ACP, the .38 Spl. and the .44 Spl. All similar velocities and pressures. (similar). What BHN they were I have no idea.

Stay away from HARD CAST and especially HEAT TREATED bullets for the .38 Spl..
Now the hard cast heat treated cast bullets are just the ticket for the .44 Mag.

I did not find the list I mentioned, but I did find my hand written note for approximate yield strengths for alloys.

5 BHN = 7100 cup yield strength
6 BHN = 8532 cup yield strength
7 BHN = 9954 cup yield strength
8 BHN = 11376 cup yield strength
9 BHN = 12798 cup yield strength
10 BHN = 14220 cup yield strength
11 BHN = 15642 cup yield strength
12 BHN = 17064 cup yield strength
13 BHN = 18486 cup yield strength
14 BHN = 19908 cup yield strength
15 BHN = 21330 cup yield strength
16 BHN = 33752 cup yield strength

Saeco and I believe Lee sell or did sell tools for measuring BHN of alloy.

Just buy some softer bullets and try them in your .38 and I think you will be OK. You may have to try different velocities to match up pressure to alloy. You need enough to upset the alloy, but not enough to exceed the alloys velocity/lube limit.

Hope this helps. Casting and experimenting is part of the fun of lead bullets.


Oh Yea.

I put 6 lead bullets down the tube then a few jacketed. This seems to prevent it from leading, but I am worried about it building up lead in the rifling.

I would shoot hundreds of lead .45 loads before cleaning with virtually no leading.

 

[Ol` Joe]

Likely the difference in the dementions/smoothness of the bores. Two other guns might flip flop. I don`t know for sure, but one material just may be easier to get a finer finish on then the other.

 

[Walkalong]

but one material just may be easier to get a finer finish on then the other.

Look down the barrel of a Mod. 14 or any older blued Smith & Wesson.

Sure a rough barrel on a blued or stainless gun can contribute to leading. An overly rough barrel will lead badly. It can be lapped if necessary.

 

[highlander 5]

have you tried a Lewis Lead Remover ? it uses a rubber jag and copper screen in the appropriate caliber to remove lead.
Another trick you can try is if you can find copper wool for scouring pans,it was sold under the"Chore Boy" brand at one time. Cut a piece out of the "pad"and wrap it in between the bristles of your bronze brush,it will get the lead out with out hurting the bore.

 

[MartinBrody]

I have a lewis lead remover but would like to find a good load so I won't need it.

The bullets I am using are way, way, way too hard for 38 special (they are hard cast and manufacturer claims 21 BHN!!!). The gun is a 357 Mag and I think I will load it up that way. I am shooting a bullet of the same hardness through my 44 Mag with no leading at (according to the load data) 1200 fps plus! I'll have to pick up some softer bullets for my 38 & 44 specials.

I don't know what I was thinking. If bullets of the same alloy worked ok at high pressure in 44 Mag., I don't know why I was trying to load them down as specials.

 

[Master Blaster]

Try adding some powder and increasing the velocity of your .38 spl loads, and see if that helps. Other wise you may want to buy softer bullets for the .38.

 

[Steve C]

I use one of the swaged bullets from Speer, Remington or Hornady to load the .38 spl. and save hard cast for the magnums.

Another thing that helps is to get your bore real clean. A little bit of fouling left will let the lead build up quick. That means getting rid of any copper fouling too. There are some good product out there. I've used both MPro7 and Shooters Choice Lead remover to get out lead fouling and Sweets 7.62 copper remover does a great job.

 

[Walkalong]

Bore-Techs Eliminator for copper. It will suprise you what comes out of your clean barrel.

Slip 2000 Carbon Killer for stubborn carbon.

Use it and Eliminator in series back and forth as the heavy fouling is down in layers.

M-Pro7 also does an pretty good job on carbon. I like it for overall cleaning of guns. Cleans very well and rinses clean with hot water. Just lube well with oil (Preferably M-Pro7 oil, good stuff and it's formulated to go with their cleaner for what that's worth.) as it strips the metal, like it is supposed to do

(Gun Butter, Snake Oil, and Slide Glide are three other real good lubes)

 

[Stanley Greenman]

Greenman

I suggest using gas checks on the bullets to cut down on the leading.Better yet try TMJ bullets from Berry's in Utah. Low cost and darn good bullets. No barrel leading. Try the following on your revolver. Remove the barrel and chamfer the forcing cone to 11 degrees and super polish. Super polish the lands and groves. While the weapon is apart (stainless models) super polish all of the areas that collect lead and powder residue, that includes the cylinder face. This will help in cleaning and be more accurate. Don't forget the barrel crown.
Burchwood Casey lead removing cloth cut into squares and forced through the tube will take out the lead. Do not use this stuff on the blued exterior as it will remove the blueing.