Learned something today...reloading .45

[RussellC]

Punching out a bunch of .45 the past couple of days, Lee classic Turret press and lee deluxe carbide dies. Never had much trouble before and everything was going fine. Then I began to notice increased resistance in the powder/belling die pulling it out. Then I noticed the bullets seemed to fit "tighter" and some fine copper powder was beginning to form around the shell holder.

Then, a few cases tried to shave the plating off. Then it became more and more frequent until I had about 15-20 of them from a batch of 200! Resistance was fairly high pulling out of the powder/flair die.

I stopped a couple of times, reset every thing to no avail. Cleaning the die helped a little with the resistance, but shaved plating and crumpled cases persisted. I tried to adjust the flair greater, but no luck until it was way to much, causing the case mouth to look like a blunderbuss.

Then a thought occurred: Could the resistance pulling out of the flair die be so great it was pulling the flair out? Measuring showed a slight flair, not enough!
So, I pulled out a tube of Lee lube (said to not degrade powder) and put some on the part inside the die that does the flaring, and just a smidge on the first case mouth or two, and went back and set dies to where they usually go and TA DA, problem solved!

I guess even carbide dies need a clean and lube once in a while. These were brand new brass being used the first time...never had this happen before but there you are. Now to take apart 20 bad shells. About 10 (from the beginning of the problem scrunched the brass enough to be scrap, the second 10 I could feel the plate starting to peel and stopped. Bullets are scrap, primers are of course good. Lesson learned!

Russellc

 

[moxie]

Not sure about the problem, as I've never encounteredthat, but it sounds like you've solved it.

BTW, the expander die is not carbide. Only the sizer die and the factory crimp die have carbide sizer rings.

 

[Walkalong]

Sounds like the expander needs polishing.

 

[joem1945]

New cases may have a sharp edge on the inside of the case where they were cut off. champher <sp> the case mouth and you will not have that problem.

 

[smovlov]

I second polishing the expander. Some people say that the sticking and jarring of the press is to help the powder in the measure drop consistently. To each his own. I perfer the brass to pull cleanly away from the expander.

 

[rcmodel]

Let me guess?

Lee power-through expander die?

They are rougher then a rat-tail file.

Take it out, chuck it in a drill, and polish the rough lathe rings off of it with emery paper.

rc

 

[GLOOB]

Yep. But the plug might still gall on new brass. Or wet tumbled brass that is squeaky clean. I just experienced this with new Starline brass with a freshly polished plug. I think I'd rather use a little lube than to chamfer every case, but I'll keep that solution in mind, Joem.

Clean brass is so darn sticky. I have 5 brand new cases down the drain. I need to pull them down, but I can't get the bullets out.

...

Edit:
Well, I learned something, today, as well, regarding pulling bullets. I had previously tried a kinetic puller. Kinetic puller on concrete. I tried pliers and my press, using a block to pull against. I tried drilling a hole in the bullet and putting a screw into it. Then pulling that on my press. (The lead just tore.)

Then as I was writing this, it finally struck me. Why not just ruin the neck tension with a Lee FCD? The FCD didn't seem to touch them all that much. And yet, after that, they easily pulled with a kinetic puller.

 

[Walkalong]

Cool. The time I tried a screw in the bullet it worked. Smart to try the FCD.

 

[gamestalker]

The only times that has ever happened to me was with brand new brass, both with Lee dies and RCBS.

The most recent incident was with new IMI .357 brass, I almost ripped a case head or two off trying to extract them from the die, thick brass I maybe? Once I fire the brass the first time, it stops happening completely.

GS

 

[GLOOB]

^After that, I guarantee there's galled brass imbedded on your expander plug. Look for scratches in your cases. Or heck, just take it apart and clean it, because it's definitely there!

 

[jacksgd]

I agree with removing the expander plug and polishing it with emery and or steel wool.
I also found that if I tumble the brass in corncob media with a little NuFinish car wax for a short time it seems to lube the inside of the case neck enough to help eliminate the drag.

 

[RussellC]

Sounds like the expander needs polishing.

I think you are right. Looking at the part that does the belling closely, it has up and down striation marks. What method/materials would you suggest polishing with?

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

I agree with removing the expander plug and polishing it with emery and or steel wool.
I also found that if I tumble the brass in corncob media with a little NuFinish car wax for a short time it seems to lube the inside of the case neck enough to help eliminate the drag.

To that end, I am trying Armour all Wash and Wax with my next batch!

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

^After that, I guarantee there's galled brass imbedded on your expander plug. Look for scratches in your cases. Or heck, just take it apart and clean it, because it's definitely there!

Bingo! It was brand new brass, and as I stated in post #12, there are striations on the plug. I did notice these transferred to the inside of the case mouth as well. I have cleaned it thoroughly and as long as I apply a tiny amount of the lube every 5-6 rounds or so, not a problem.

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

Let me guess?

Lee power-through expander die?

They are rougher then a rat-tail file.

Take it out, chuck it in a drill, and polish the rough lathe rings off of it with emery paper.

rc

Yup, that is the beast...what "grit" of emery cloth folks?

Russellc

 

[1KPerDay]

Another thing you might consider... Hornady One-shot case lube sucks for actually sizing rifle rounds, but it's great for reducing the effort of handgun loading in carbide dies. Just dump a few hundred cases in a plastic bucket, spray a second of one shot, shake up the bucket. let them sit for a minute and then load away. some of the lube gets in the occasional mouth and seems to ease the belling/expanding process also.

 

[Ex]

I've had a "sticky" problem on my Dillon roll crimp dies. When returning the handle to the "neutral" position, there is a lot of force required then it POPS and releases. Tumbling by brass with Turtle wax metal polish leaves a slightly slick feel to the brass and has aleviated it.

 

[wlkjr]

I use the Hornady One Shot case lube and it reduces the effort by half.

 

[GLOOB]

What grit? Well, I used 400 grit and a couple drops of oil on my Lee expanders to clean the brass off and to smooth them. Then a little final polishing with buffing compound on leather.

When I just galled up my M die expander on new brass, it was already polished. So I dropped the plug in a bottle of Hoppe's #9 for a few days to loosen and dissolve some of the copper before scraping away at the brass. I don't want to make that plug any smaller. Some of the streaks didn't come away, easily, and I resorted to 400 grit, again.

 

[Walkalong]

I wish the M Die expander mandrel was hardened like the RCBS ones are.