learned things over the week end.

[SsevenN]

I'm a new reloader.

Originally I was loading 115 grn TMJs and JHPs in 9mm.

Well even the reloading supplies have been tapped in my area. So I bought some horandy 90 grn XTPs.

Quick side-note; the XTPs have fantastic expansion, maybe even too much. I shot one through three 20 oz bottles filled with water, and retrieved it from the dirt. (maybe 4 inches in soft sand) The round had expanded so much that the petals were folded back on to the solid core! I'll take a picture, the symmetry is beutiful!

Back on point. I loaded 100 rounds using a the same OAL as that of my 124 grn federal HST defensive loads.(not hand loads, store-bought) Assuming that would be a good OAL to start with.

Well i had a 10% rate of MASSIVE failure with these loads. Which was upsetting, because my first 500 reloads were error free.

The failure was a separation of bullet and casing. Even when I was loading these rounds, it seemed they were not seated deep enough. But Unfortunately, I am a creature of trial and error, the only way to answer my question was to shoot the loads. I was reminded of my failure after each bunk round was expended. It would separate while feeding, jamming the casing and bullet together in some akward assembly.

So I'm quite sure that the separations were caused by the bullet not being seated deep enough.

In the end what I have is 90 grn loads with a significantly shoter OAL than anything in the 115 grn range and up. (after my adjustment to to the OAL )

Is that normal? Or am I confused about the correct way to load a 90 grn bullet?

Thanks in advance

 

[Dean Williams]

No, it's not normal. What powder/charge, and what OAL are you using with the 90 grainers?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

No, it's not normal. What powder/charge, and what OAL are you using with the 90 grainers?

That information is very important. Also, are you using a reloading manual or checking for load data online? Both sources will give you the OAL they used in developing the posted load.

 

[Steve C]

Lighter bullets are shorter and shorter bullets will have a shorter loaded OAL. You need about the same amount of bullet in the case so a shorter OAL is warranted. The Hornady data I have says cartridge OAL should be 1.080" with the 90gr bullet. A couple HS 9mm's I measured where 1.098" OAL.

 

[SsevenN]

I'm using HP-38 powder, I actually don't have any dial calipers yet, so I have checking the OAL by eyeball! (I'm also using a very low amount of powder, the idea was to create some great plinking rounds. 4.7 grns if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks for the advise guys, I have just purchased dial calipers, so I think I'm back on track.

 

[RandyP]

I will presume that you already checked the powder manufacturer's info center....but...Per the Hodgdon website Reloading Data Center at http://www.wwpowder.com :

Cartridge: 9mm Luger
Load Type: Pistol
Starting Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maximum Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

90 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.010" 5.5 1312 25,400 CUP 5.8 1349 30,100 CUP
95 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.020" 4.8 1189 26,300 CUP 5.3 1273 31,400 CUP
100 GR. SPR FMJ Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.050" 5.1 1218 25,200 CUP 5.5 1282 28,400 CUP
115 GR. LRN Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.100" 4.3 1079 28,400 CUP 4.8 1135 32,000 CUP
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP
125 GR. LCN Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.125" 3.9 1009 25,700 CUP 4.4 1086 31,200 CUP
125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.090" 4.4 1009 24,600 CUP 4.8 1088 28,800 CUP
130 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.120" 4.3 978 25,300 CUP 4.6 1050 28,300 CUP


NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

Calipers and a good scale are pretty much mandatory to start experimenting with loads along with a good reloading manual.

 

[Walkalong]

I actually don't have any dial calipers yet, so I have checking the OAL by eyeball!

You really need a pair of calipers. They are indespensable. They can be had so reasonable there is no reason to be without one. The Midway one is on sale right now and Harbor Freight puts theirs on sale often as well.

Harbor Freight

Midway

These are both digital. Some folks prefer the dial. My old eyes kind of like the digital ones these days. If I need a critical measurement to the nearest .0001 I use a dial type micrometer.(And reading glasses )

 

[Floppy_D]

You missed post #5, Walkalong. Down for your nap.

 

[rfwobbly]

Huh ?

I actually don't have any dial calipers yet....

What the heck are you smoking !

When we say you must measure your OAL we mean you must. When we quote an OAL, we expect you to hit that exact number within +/- .005 inches (about 1.5 human hairs). Accuracy of both the powder and OAL is critical for the performance of the round and YOUR PERSONAL SAFETY... especially when dealing with a ticklish round like the 9x19 Luger. Friend, this is anything but a guessing game.


PS.
If you insist on not using a caliper, then do us a favor and post your wife's name and address. We'll be right over to console your grieving spouse in ways that you may not approve.

 

[dave from mesa]

Post #5

Thanks for the advise guys, I have just purchased dial calipers, so I think I'm back on track.

I think he bought one.
OAL will vary depending on bullet weight.

 

[rfwobbly]

Dang !

I was so looking forward to meeting the wife.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

In some cases a charge that's too low is just as dangerous as an over-charge. You charge of 4.7gr HP-38 under a 90gr Jacketed bullet is very low. Hodgdon recommends a minimum charge of 5.5gr and a Max charge of 5.8gr. Also, with a 90gr bullet the OAL is quite a bit shorter than with a 125gr bullet. (1.010" as compared to 1.125") Not only did you drop way below the min charge you compounded the problem by seating the bullet too high further reducing the pressure in the round. I'm surprised the slide cycled reliably.

Please use published data when developing loads since too light a charge could cause detonation in the case which is never a good thing.

 

[Walkalong]

You missed post #5, Walkalong. Down for your nap.

Agh, I see, good job. rfwobbly was napping too.

 

[SsevenN]

Thanks again guys.

I have the min/max load data charts printed out from hodgons web page (hanging right above my bench.). My first 500 rounds (of 115 grn bullets) were loaded to the minimum levels. I was starting to feel more comfortable so I dropped the powder weight down a signifigant amount. No problems feeding so far, or extracting. But I AM going to hold off on making more rounds until I get the calipers in.

Is my 4.7 grns of HP-38 really that dangerous? I mean, assuming I have my calipers, and am getting a consistant OAL that the factory recommends, is it really necessary to bring the powder back up?

....I was really starting to enjoy my super-light plinkers...


(edited to add; I don't have a wife, but the lady friend sure would have a good laugh if I managed to blow my self up....assuming I survived without serious injuries, that is.)

 

[Walkalong]

Who said 4.7 Grs of HP38 is dangerous? Maybe I was still napping

For a 115 Gr RN lead bullet (RCBS 09-115-RN) the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1 gives a start load of 4.7 Grs HP-38 and a Max of 5.2 Grs HP-38 for 1193 & 1307 FPS.

It gives a start load of 4.5 Grs W-231 and a Max of 5.0 Grs W-231 for 1042 & 1138 FPS.

Sounds fine to me.

 

[RidgwayCO]

Let's see... it's a Hornady bullet, so let's see what Hornady says!

My Hornady 6th Edition (yes, I'm too cheap to buy the 7th Ed.) actually has real tested data for the 90gr HP/XTP in the 9mm Luger, and the powder listing even shows Win 231 (which is exactly the same as HP-38).

Using a COL of 1.070" (dang, those calipers are gonna come in handy!), the manual lists loads using Win 231 as starting at 4.7gr, with a maximum of 5.6gr (and a projected velocity of 1300 fps out of a 4" barrel).

See, that wasn't so hard!

 

[rfwobbly]

rfwobbly was napping too.

Huh? Napping?

Honest. I put my head down for just a moment.

 

[Walkalong]

Yea, it always seems like just a moment, doesn't it.

 

[SsevenN]

Using a COL of 1.070" (dang, those calipers are gonna come in handy!), the manual lists loads using Win 231 as starting at 4.7gr, with a maximum of 5.6gr (and a projected velocity of 1300 fps out of a 4" barrel).

See, that wasn't so hard!

Very helpful, thanks.

Yeah I definitely need to spend some money on some comprehensive reloading literature. Thankfully I just got Midway's master catalog and will be blowing my entire tax return on its contents.

 

[Cascades]

I'd guess a tax return is worth two hands and an eye--(not to mention, the gun).

 

[RidgwayCO]

As I re-read my post above, I realize I was being snitty, and sincerely apologize for that.

My beef is with people trying to do reloading "on the cheap" and skimping on the wrong things. IMHO, if you are going to reload you NEED at least one good reloading manual, a reliable scale, and a reloading caliper. EVERYTHING ELSE is optional. The good news is that you can purchase these items for considerably less than $100 (I just priced them out at MidwayUSA). My family's health insurance premium for one month is considerably more than that...

People have successfully reloaded for years with everything from the Classic Lee Loaders to $1000+ progressive setups. Safety requires using tested loads with known amounts of powder and known COLs. You simply can't do that without the three items listed.

Your health and safety (as well as those around you at the range) is too important to leave to chance.

 

[rockhound758]

Ridgeway: For what it's worth, I think that this site absolutely ought to be providing that information (and it does)...even if it is occasionally snitty (I personally didn't think yours was all that bad). If we got together someplace (virtually or not) and talked about the "mission" of the website, my guess would be that at the top of the list would be helping ensure safe reloading for everyone.

My guess is that in many cases reloaders start because one of their friends did, and they'll mirror their practices. If the friend didn't use a scale or calipers and just relied on the powder measure for accuracy, then the new reloader probably wouldn't as well (until of course they stumble across this site).

In any case, I just wanted to shout out a "well done" to you guys that so regularly provide this information to others. Altruism and genuine caring for your fellow reloader is great to see (and RF, I appreciated your "above and beyond" altruism!). The only problem is that there's too MUCH interesting information...I probably spend way more time on this site that I should.