Leaving a clip mag loaded

[Homerboy]

Most sources say keeping them loaded does not hurt anything, and that it is the compressing and decompressing of the spring that wears them out. However, this is from the Wolff Gunsprings website. They’re regarded as being top of the line springs. I guess they would have an incentive to say the following, but I lean towards believing them.


“Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.

Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not the always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring.

More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical.”

The only magazines I keep loaded are ones in my home defense gun and my carry gun. All other mags are unloaded.

 

[Walkalong]

Cycles put wear on a spring, over compression puts wear on a spring. If a mag is designed well, the spring well made, and it doesn't over compress in normal function (full mag), it will not harm it to leave it loaded.

 

[Old_Grouch]

Mag springs are relatively cheap. If you're concerned about them weakening over time buy a spare set of springs from Wolff Gunsprings and swap them out every 30-40 years or so.

 

[crstrode]

"My old man has always said it's bad to leave a clip loaded long term. Insists it wears out the spring. I don't see how I would have time to load my clip in my pistol in a home defence situation so I keep one loaded anyway. Am I really gonna ruin the spring?"

Clips do not have springs.

However, if your Old Man was Jeff Cooper, I apologize. I have heard Jeff refer to magazines as clips on more than one occasion.

 

[Skylerbone]

I suppose we should also note, for posterity’s sake, that some magazines can have issues with feed lips spreading, which is why many who choose to leave magazines loaded for storage often download by 1 or 2.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Cycles put wear on a spring, over compression puts wear on a spring. If a mag is designed well, the spring well made, and it doesn't over compress in normal function (full mag), it will not harm it to leave it loaded.

Well, yes and no.

Springs have a "design working length", this is the length they can be cyclically compressed and not suffer greatly, this is usually about 50% the free length. However, if you regularly compress springs to less than the working length, you are "over-compressing" the spring. Almost all magazine and recoil springs are "over-compressed" in normal operation due to space limitations. (An M1911 magazine would be about 3 inches longer if you put a spring in there that didn't compress to less than 50% it's free length and still held 7 rounds.)

This is why recoil and magazine springs do eventually wear out and need replacing periodically (several hundred to a few thousand cycles). A spring that operates only in its designed working length will last several million cycles.

As to long term storage of loaded magazines, the Army has studied this in depth. Over a five year period several hundred magazines were loaded to capacity and stored. At regular intervals a few magazines were removed from storage, test fired, and had the spring rate and free length measured. What they found was that over the first six-months to a year, the springs lost about 15% to 20% of their free length and a commensurate lost in rate, after the initial drop, the spring remained stable in rate and length until the end of the five year test. By the way, they experienced NO magazine induced malfunctions in any of the firing tests.

So, if the particular magazine design in question can withstand a loss of 15% to 20% of its free length and still operate properly, indefinite storage is possible (however, the ammunition will degrade over time, so there's that).

 

[Steve762us]

Yep...there ain't no free lunches, everything costs something.

Whether designers opted for durability, or marketing round-count, may spell the difference between "ok" and "oops".

For the "only cycles count, look at vehicle springs", go park your F-150 for six months with the aforementioned pallets of bricks
in the bed, and she how she fares.

 

[Robbins290]

I have a old gen 3 Glock 22 with 5 mags. 2 of which is left loaded the whole time I owned it, They get fresh ammo every few years by shooting the old ammo. The other 3 are range mags and get used ALOT and left unloaded while not in use.

Only the mags that I use at the range needed new springs. The ones kept loaded are still working fine.

So I would say that keeping the mags loaded will not hurt anything.

 

[trackskippy]

Even when you use them, they last a good long time. Ive been using in weekly practice, the same lot of cheap 17 round Korean Glock mags for 12 years now, and they havent skipped a beat.

The only Glock mags Ive had issues with have been the 33 rounders, both factory and the Korean mags. The Korean mags were real finicky and worked better when I put factory springs and followers in them. I still have occasional troubles with the factory 33 rounders too though.

I did swap out springs on a few 17 rounders a one point when I started running into random malfunctions with my high round count 17. Mag springs and extractors came up as the likely problem, and I changed out both. Didnt fix things, and it turned out to be my worn out reloaded brass.

I also have a bunch of USGI 1911 mags I bought back in the early 90's that were used like the Glocks in practice and have been shot a couple of times a month since the early 2000's, and they too are still on their original springs.

I do have a couple of factory Colt 8 rounders that are starting to not want to lock the slide back on empty, and Ive been meaning to see if thats what the problem is, as I suspect it is. Just havent got around to it.

Im also using a number of Colt and USGI M16 mags from the 70's that have been used on a regular basis since that time, and they dont seem to be bothered by constant use.

Mags are a consumable item and Ive lost more to hard use/abuse (dropping them on hard things, stepping on them, dogs chewing on them, etc) than from the springs failing.

Luckily, for the most part, mags arent all that expensive, and it pays to have a bunch of them in case something does go wrong, or for just being able to load them all up before you go, so you dont have to keep stopping to load them at the range.

 

[barnetmill]

With spring steel having the correct metallurgy maybe, but occasionally springs can take a set.

 

[CapnMac]

Clips do not have springs.

Depends on the version. Most of the Mannlicher en bloc clips are the spring themselves.

Many of the Mauser-style clips use a base spring to hold the rims against the clip edges--virtually all US military clips (1903, 30 carbine, 7.62nato, etc.) use a midline spring. The US five-round clips also have a small tab to keep the rounds from sliding out. Those tabs are vexing as they can work harden and then snap right off.

Not all US martial magazines have a spring, too. Most famously the M-1 Garand magazine has a follower driven bay an arm off the mainspring, rather than a dedicated internal spring.

 

[Anchorite]

The mags that I keep loaded, I switch out each year when we change the clocks. That’s once in the spring and once in the fall. FWIW.

 

[FL-NC]

It depends on the gun and the quality and age of the magazine. SOME magazines aren't worth a hoot when they are brand new, depending on what we are dealing with. Personally, I won't own a gun of any type that uses a magazine without owning at least 2 mags for it. I have several loaded HD guns that are of good quality, as are their mags. My birthday is May 26 (always the last week in May). Thanksgiving is the last week in November. So give or take a couple of days, my birthday and thanksgiving are 6 months apart. On those days, I swap my mags. So the high quality mags in the high quality guns only stay loaded 6 months at a time. Since I have seen mags for these types of guns get loaded and misplaced for YEARS but still work just fine when taken to the range, I feel confident that this technique is sound, but probably overkill.

 

[Obturation]

This is a very debatable topic. I'll only use my own experience as a guide and have faith that I have no dog in this fight either way.

Bottom line: in my experience all springs (including modern) weaken from sitting compressed.
I know, voodoo and not supposed to be what happens but the gravity surrounding me must be different than the guys who say "no way".

My observations:
I recently started a thread about my attempts to change a tubular mag spring in a Mossberg 500 (still haven't gotten the tube off). This gun is rarely fired and has been loaded less than 100 times (probably significantly less than 100). It sits fully loaded in my room for home defense. It's been loaded close to 15 years, there is almost zero mag spring tension remaining, can't even get the last to shells to present to the lifter. That spring is wasted from sitting loaded, no doubt about it.

The other example that proves this is a thing relates to glock magazines. I use 9 round mags for my g30, when they're new you almost have to stand on them to get #9 in there. But by some mysterious magic if you load 8 and let it sit like that 6 months, #9 slides right in. No cycling, no use just sitting. If that's not proof of springs losing tension due to compression I'd need another explanation.

Download by 1 and it's less significant. Mags are consumable , use them , rebuild them and if they're smoked toss them.

Just my 2 cents, YMMV. In my world springs get tired from sitting compressed.

 

[Appalachiannative]

Well pardon me I suppose I was using laymen's terms. I apparently ment "detachable magazine" or "box magazine" I've heard them called clips in person and knew the right term was magazine. The thing that holds bullets to go down into a fixed magazine rifle like a Mosin or SKS ive always heard called "strip clips" and the thing that goes into a garand a "bandolier clip" at least where I come from. may not be "proper" terminology but like I've always said I speak the Appalachian dialect not the English language and I apologize to those who don't understand but not to those who wish to poke fun. Thanks for the help to those who simply answered

 

[Appalachiannative]

It depends on the gun and the quality and age of the magazine. SOME magazines aren't worth a hoot when they are brand new, depending on what we are dealing with. Personally, I won't own a gun of any type that uses a magazine without owning at least 2 mags for it. I have several loaded HD guns that are of good quality, as are their mags. My birthday is May 26 (always the last week in May). Thanksgiving is the last week in November. So give or take a couple of days, my birthday and thanksgiving are 6 months apart. On those days, I swap my mags. So the high quality mags in the high quality guns only stay loaded 6 months at a time. Since I have seen mags for these types of guns get loaded and misplaced for YEARS but still work just fine when taken to the range, I feel confident that this technique is sound, but probably overkill.

I like it! Best of both worlds! Don't even have to choose with that method! I got to practice with my pistol more anyway so I'm sure the mag will get emptied more often than that. Only crappy part is this is an FEG GKK 45c that they don't make anymore so the mags are kinda high, why I was worried about wearing them out

 

[entropy]

I have never had a malfunction attributable to 'spring set'. lysanderxiii has the best explanation of how springs wear, and Anchorite and FL-NC have a good system for rotation. I have range mags, and carry/storage mags. The range mags are usually the ones that came with the pistol, carry mags are aftermarket. (Except my PT145, none exsist.) Some rifle mags I keep loaded and ready to go. Some are stored empty, and loaded for the range only. Shotgun mag springs get changed every few years, though usually not necessary.

FWIW, a friend found a 1911 stored in a house he was working on; it was wrapped in newspapers from the mid 20's (It was a WWI era Commercial model) loaded with a 7 round mag. All 7 fired, and and the mag worked just fine after that. The idiot had sold it for way less than it was worth, (even then, this was 1982 or 3) before I'd heard about it. He bought a box of ammo, and shot the 7 in it plus the box, mag worked just fine.

 

[danez71]

Spring performance does degrade from other factors besides repeated cycling; one of which is being compressed (or stretched) deep into or past the elasticity range of the material/design and left stagnant.

In previous years I've posted a lot of data about this.

It seems to be more of an issue with high capacity in compact mags. Load 1 round in a 30 round AR mag and it will like be fine for a generation or 2. Load 12 in a micro compact and it will like show degradation in several months; may still work or may not but measurable degradation will be present.



If cycling were the only factor, then people would be replacing recoil springs at a rate of at least 10:1 over mag springs (assuming 10 round mags). But instead we see closer to the opposite.

 

[lysanderxiii]

If cycling were the only factor, then people would be replacing recoil springs at a rate of at least 10:1 over mag springs (assuming 10 round mags). But instead we see closer to the opposite.

That would assume that the springs are stressed the same, which is not true.

Note the number of coils and the distance between them, the helix angle, in a typical recoil spring versus the typical magazine spring. Your typical magazine spring has a a larger helix angle, and therefore the wire is twisted through a larger angle with each complete compression, and so sees more stress in each cycle. Also the wire diameter of a magazine spring is smaller and usually not round, but rectangular or oval in shape, all this means magazine spring usually can withstand fewer cycles that a recoil spring...

 

[Lo-Profile]

Quality magazines are what you want.
Stay away from junk magazines with weak springs and crappy followers and you'll be fine.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I've always considered this to be a myth. Years ago I loaded up a mag and kept it in my safe for 5 years and then went to the range with it. It shot fine without any issues. To me an empty mag is useless. Every mag I own is loaded and ready for use for whenever the need may arise.

 

[danez71]

That would assume that the springs are stressed the same, which is not true.

No, my statement doesn't make that assumption whatsoever.



Your following statement supports my statement as being true.

Note the number of coils and the distance between them, the helix angle, in a typical recoil spring versus the typical magazine spring. Your typical magazine spring has a a larger helix angle, and therefore the wire is twisted through a larger angle with each complete compression, and so sees more stress in each cycle. Also the wire diameter of a magazine spring is smaller and usually not round, but rectangular or oval in shape, all this means magazine spring usually can withstand fewer cycles that a recoil spring...

There are many factors other than cycling that affect spring performance longevity.

We agree.

 

[lysanderxiii]

No, my statement doesn't make that assumption whatsoever.

Your following statement supports my statement as being true.

No, it does not.

A high helix angle (as in magazine spring) see higher stress than a shallow helix angle, and therefore doesn't last as long as recoil springs.

We agree.

No, we don't. For a given spring design, the number of cycles is the primary driver of life.

 

[The Glockodile]

I see the Clip Police have made their presence known

 

[danez71]

No, we don't. For a given spring design, the number of cycles is the primary driver of life.

(Emphasis added)

I didn't day otherwise. I said cycles isn't the only factor. Go back and reread it.

That's a fact that your post supports.

A myriad of other things affect spring life; not only # of cycles.

Spring steel has greater elasticity than, for example, iron and will tolerate deeper compression afforded by higher helix angle. As such, different spring steel materials and grades will result in different abilities.

Take a low grade spring steel with a high helix angle and compress it (or stretch it) 100% 1 time and see what happens.

Then take a high grade spring steel with a same helix angle and compress it 100 times at 10% and see what happens.

The higher grade and shallower compression spring (with the same helix) will fare better.

Spring steel material / grade and compression depth also play significant roles.

No, it does not.

Yes, it does. You using the word primary indicates it's not the only; unless you're assigning new definitions.