Leaving them loaded

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mec

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The number of posts here about load integrity when left in the chambers prompts some personal tests. I was already aware that loads -particularly with pyrodex can deconstitute if extreme care is not taken to remove all lubricant and moisture. I have shot inadequately cleaned ones with black and pyrodex with flintlock-like hang fires and duds.

So far I have left the pocket model loaded for one month with fffg after rendering the chambers and cones clinically clean and dry. They went off just fine. I repeated this with pyrodex p for two weeks and got the same results.

I have also reloaded a revolver fired with pyrodex p and kept it that way overnight on camping trips. The initial firing of the chambers cleared them out adequately and the gun fired perfectly the next day. Wiping away the fouling from exterior and bore and lightly coating both with oil was good enough to prevent any overnight - or over weekend- rust.
 
The way I figure it, if people were able to do OK 100 years ago with perpetually loaded six guns and no problems, we should be able to do the same today.
 
I've left an 1860 loaded with American Pioneer's BP substitute for about 2 months. It wasn't an intentional test. I was preparing to shoot in the backyard range. Had just finished charging the cylinders when I was interrupted. 8 weeks passed before I again had an afternoon to myself. All chambers fired on the first cap. Accuracy was what I expect from this pistol. I can't comment on velocity, as I wasn't chronographing the loads. I currently have an 1851 loaded with fffg Goex. Same situation. I was just getting set up when I was called away. It's been about 10 days and I'm probably looking at early January before I'll get time during daylight. I'll post the result if anything wierd happens.
 
I suspect a lot has to do with the quality of the components. I've narrowed down the problems with mine to the caps. I've been using CCI. They seem to absorb moisture. I've heard this doesn't happen with the Remington, but nobody carries those in my area.

I pulled the caps off my 1851 Navy Revolver last night to see. Three of them looked fine, a couple looked iffy, and one had a gray, deteriorated substance inside. Mind you, all metal parts were dried in the oven prior to re-assembly.

I'm trying something different now. I'm putting the larger, #11 caps on and pinching them so they stay on. The caps aren't doing this when off of the revolver. They only seem to do it when they are on the revolver, and my #10 caps fit snug and tight.

I think climate has a lot to do with this. I live in a wet climate. In addition, my Pyrodex is in the garage, my revolver is in the house. I suspect the pyrodex is absorbing atmospheric water, and this is getting picked up by the percussion caps through normal temperature change. Perhaps if the caps aren't as sealed on the nipple, moisture can escape. We'll see. But since fall, I haven't had much success with keeping my weapon loaded. It was not an issue in the summer.

happybrew
 
"I've heard this doesn't happen with the Remington, but nobody carries those in my area. "

same here. we canvassed several of the distributors and none have remington caps. It appears that they are not being made at this time. The same situation exists with any slightly oddball cartridge, a lot of .22 rimfire types and a lot of component brass. We're in a raw material shortage situation much like occured in the Vietnam Era.
 
storage/antimoisture

I've been watching this thread too! I am thinking about loading up my spare Remington cylinder with the Goex pellet, a wad, then the ball, but its the next step that I cannot decide on... I have CCI caps, and they are stored inside, in the little white tin. The storage choices really break down to two variations. One would be to keep the caps in their little tin, and put the otherwise loaded cylinder in a ziplock baggie, sucking out as much air as possible during the sealing process. Alternatively, I could place the caps on the nipples of the loaded cylinder and drop this into the Ziplock bag, again sucking out as much air as possible. Once loaded, the cylinder would be kept in the presentation case.

I'm a little scared of trying to slide a fully loaded and capped cylinder into the Remington frame, since it doesn't take much to touch off a cap, but sure would like to have the cylinders ready to go. Anybody have experience along these lines?

KKKKFL
 
With my lightly sprung revolvers, the only way I can make cci caps reliable is to dowel seat them with a great deal of pressure. I do this with the gun pointed in a safe direction so that I will not be surprised or offended if the process sets them off. This process might help to seal them against moisture and such.

I was given a bunch of old cva caps in the plastic round "tins" they came in. they were notibly discolored but most went off handily. This would be after two or three decades probably stored in a house without extremes in humidity and temperature. I suspect that unless you leave the loaded gun outside in the weather, heroic storage methods will not be necessary.

Having spare fully loaded cylinders was a common practice in the 19th century and is almost universally condemned now. Putting it in the gun should have much risk of accidental firing but dropping on a hard surface could do the trick. generally, balls fired from the chamber only have very little velocity but it's not a thing I would take to the bank.
 
We had that very thing happen at the range during the summer. Someone was reloading a black powder revolver and his cylinder rolled off the bench or was dropped. It hit the leg bracket and a chamber discharged. Luckily it didn't have a lot of velocity because it travelled a few lanes down and hit a guy in the arm, leaving a bruise but no real damage. If it had fired up and hit the owner in the face, who knows. Be careful with loaded and capped cylinders.
 
Honestly I think there is nothing wrong with leaving guns loaded but the problem is the safety hazzard they posses. If you have children who are too young to know any better they might, not purposly, fire the gun harming themselves or loved ones. :( If the gun it clean and dry powder will store just like in the bottle or flask. :)
 
Some years ago someone brought me an 1849 Colt Pocket Model with all 5 chambers loaded - possibly since the Civil War. Not wanting to shoot it, I drilled out the balls. The powder was caked into a solid mass, but the chambers were not rusted, and the powder burned when ignited in an ash tray.
 
The major problem with leaving them loaded is that black powder is hygroscopic and when it absorbs water the salt peter tends to migrate out of the mixture and corrode the metal. I know that the substitutes are both more hygroscopic and less hygroscopic based on brand but I do not have any information on what happens when they absorb water.


Then again this may only be a problem for people like me who live in the Pacific North West.
 
I heard that Ralph Waldo Emerson

had a Colt Navy 1851 he always keeps in his oak desk drawer, and they found it after 130 years, and it fired without a single hitch.

A black powder revolver is like one of those Tamagachi digital pets that was the craze during my elementery school days. You have to constantly keep taking care of them, or you will lose out. I never play with them, but had several friends who did, and the Tamagachis went as far as to interfere with their studying and schoolwork.

Not worth it at all, but I would spend a whole day loading my LeMat with such precision and care that it will fire even if fifty years just go by.
 
As I remembr most of it was in clumps, and they simply burned. But some of it flashed. Those watching were qute suprised.
 
Environment is Key!

Interesting story..
I purchased a used T/C Hawken .50 some years ago, after seeing it languish on a shelf of a gun store. The proprietor said that he had it laying around for many years, he didn't have much BP trade in his shop.

I took it straight home for $75 and decided to give the lock a snap... I (only) popped a Remington cap on it and lined up a tree in the back yard. (Always treat a gun as if it's loaded) The set trigger tripped with the slightest touch and the Hawken Roared!!!! Just about knocked me on my Keester.

I went back to the store to ask the salesman exactly how long the LOADED gun had been laying on his shelf... With a startled look on his face, he told me "more than 20 years"

As long as you load on a clean chamber and keep the gun in a dry/stable environment... It will go BOOM! (even if you didn't know it was loaded).
 
If you use Black Powder only and a proper fitting ball and cap in a clean dry Revolver you should have no problem with it going off after any length of time, with out lubes or fillers. Pellets I would never put in a Rev for any reason, they are made for in-lines rifles. Subs powders, I wouldn't store either.
Knowing that the most one might wanna do in a humid or wet climate is maybe seal around the caps with beeswax or the like.
I've not had a problem using the Holy Black powder and keep a couple Revs loaded at all times.
Revs found in digs dating back to 150 years have been fired and gone off...that tells me something.
 
When I was a kid and just beginning to get interested in guns, my father gave me a book about guns and gun safety. It used true stories about people who'd made mistakes and paid the price to make points about safety.
One incident it told was particularly interesting. One family had a old BP rifle on the wall of their house for generations. It dated back to probably just pre-Civil War. The family's young son had a friend over, who was curious about the rifle, and the son took the rifle off the wall, cocked it, and --this isn't gonna be good -- aimed it at his friend, and pulled the trigger.
The rifle hadn't been used in about 100 years. (this book dated to the mid-1960's). But, like many others back then, the rifle was last used by a man who'd probably shot his dinner, came home, cleaned the rifle, and as part of that process, naturally loaded it and put it back on the wall.
In about a century, no one had used it.
But on that unfortunate day the young son was aiming it at his friend, and pulled the trigger, that 100 year old powder was every bit as good as it was when America's sons were dying at Gettysburg.
You guessed it; he shot and killed his friend.
 
early this year, I got a box of black powder .44 specials that dated from 1914-16. The clorate primers were dead and I replaced them with new remingtons and reassembled the loads. I also loaded some with new goex fffg.
The older powder was not a great deal different than the new.
Results here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=199482
That old rifle would have had mercury fulminate caps. Don't know, but maybe they are more long lasting that the clorates they used in the early 20th century before going to non corrosive
 
Per the above...
Clorates and Fulminates are pretty reactive compounds with metals such as copper and brass, thus becoming desensitized/inert after years of sitting.

Some enterprising companies used beeswax and/or shellac to insulate their primers, thus greatly extending their useful life.

Not surprising that a few will still go bang, especially considering how many (millions) of cartridges were produced and how many still exist. It only takes a tiny percentage to result in a disaster.
 
I've been using CCI. They seem to absorb moisture. I've heard this doesn't happen with the Remington, but nobody carries those in my area.
Click to expand...

My local Wal-Mart carries them. Might be worth a look.
 
Use RWS caps for years in competition they beat all the others in consistancy, life , brisnence ETC.
 
I bought a bunch of CCI and RWS primers in 2000. They work fine even now in my rifles (TC Renegade and H&A Buggy) but are inconsistant in my recently aquired ROA. Bought some new CCIs last month and they all pop 1st time in the ROA. The CCIs ran better than the RWSs after 6 years but by a pretty small margin. I'm in Colorado; YMMV. Remingtons seem to only be available at Bass Pro shops around here. They're too pricey for my taste.
 
I was at the Remington Factory taking their Armourer's Course and they told us of an old Remington barrel flintlock that was brought in by a man who said it belonged to his family for generations. He knew it was loaded, that it had been for well over a century, and asked for advice. The Remington engineers took the gun in, examined it, declared it safe to operate and returned it to him with the advice to shoot it. Blackpowder, unlike modern nitro-cellulose propellants, doesn't lose effectiveness with age. So long as its dry, it's capable of igniting.
 
Tommygunn,

There was a book written by Gary Paulsen, called "The Rifle", and the story is about how a famed Revolutionary War American sniper took out hundreds of British troops with it, then died of dysentery. The rifle, loaded, went through several hands and finally ended up in Colorado, in 1997. I won't spoil it for you anymore, but read the book, and see the surprise ending
 
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