Lee 500S&w 440gr cast Which crimp groove?

[Reefinmike]

Im looking for anyone with experience on which crimp groove to use with the 440gr lee 500 smith and wesson bullet. mine weigh in right at 460gr with a gas check and powder coat.

Hodgdon lists a COAL of 2.025" with a 440gr cast, Accurate lists 2.005 and 2.105" with different cast lead 440 bullets and my lee manual lists 2.025.

Using the lee bullet, I get an OAL of 2.010" in the first crimp groove and 2.130" in the second crimp groove. How do you choose what crimp groove you use? I will be trying to burn up a couple kegs of AA1680 but I also have some lilgun and W296. Should I just use the second crimp groove if my powder charge is getting compressed any when seated deep at the first? Im thinking about a 5 load workup of 39.0, 40.0, 41.0, 42.0 and 43.0gr AA1690 @ 2.010. Im looking for a moderate magnum load that is comfortable enough to shoot 50 rounds while avoiding those loads that get you 2800-2900ft/lbs

 

[eldon519]

If you are going for maximum performance, seating it further out will aid in that. With the bullet further out, you should be able to get in a little bit more powder before you get pressure signs compared to if it is seated further in.

If you are just planning to run a mid-level load or something like that, I might work up to it with it seated further in. In theory you'd get a better, more efficient burn with the lower powder charge, but at S&W .500 pressures, that shouldn't be a problem anyway. It's got a lot of upper-end in terms of pressure.

 

[MEHavey]

Looking at the bullet, I see only one crimp groove:
http://files1.kyozou.com/Picture.aspx?width=600&height=600&id=22019194

Everything else is grease groove (and I don't see anything only 0.020" apart)

Crimp in the designed crimp groove for 2.010" OAL and press on

 

[eldon519]

Sure looks like two crimp grooves to me.

 

[Reefinmike]

Looking at the bullet, I see only one crimp groove:
http://files1.kyozou.com/Picture.aspx?width=600&height=600&id=22019194

Everything else is grease groove (and I don't see anything only 0.020" apart)

Crimp in the designed crimp groove for 2.010" OAL and press on

No, there are certainly two crimp grooves and one grease groove on that bullet. And they are .120" apart. I listed oal's of 2.010 & 2.130".

Eldon- that is pretty much what i was thinking, most sources list ~2.025" oal for a 440 43gr aa1680 max. Accurate has a load listing a longer oal and 49.7gr max. Nearly a 7gr jump! I guess ill stick with the first(2.010"oal) crimp groove for now and start using the other one once i feel the need to send the lead full throttle

 

[eldon519]

If you've got a chrony that could make for some interesting experimentation, using the same powder charge and the two different grooves to see how it affects velocity.

 

[MEHavey]

No, there are certainly two crimp grooves

Did you look at the pic?
http://files1.kyozou.com/Picture.aspx?width=600&height=600&id=22019194

Treat everything but the top groove as grease groove, and seat to Lyman's
very specific OAL of 2.010" using that bullet.

 

[eldon519]

Yes, the pic clearly shows two crimp grooves.

 

[MEHavey]

Again,
Treat everything but the top groove as grease groove [you need it], and seat to Lyman's
very specific OAL of 2.010" using that bullet.

The OP was concerned about powder compression at 2.010". Don't.
Neither H110/W296 @36gr/Max nor Lil'Gun at 31gr/Max are even close to compressed
And QuickLoad predicts barest powder/bullet contact at 39gr/AA1680 (so you might use groove#2 above that)

 

[Reefinmike]

MEHavey- not to sound combative, but there absolutely are TWO crimp grooves in the bullet design. Yes, you could fill one of the crimp grooves with lube but im powder coating them. Thanks for the quickload info on the case fill with aa1680. I may experiment some with larger charges of 1680 and loading into the second crimp groove. But at the same time, i believe lilgun or w296 would be a better performer if thats what im after.

 

[MEHavey]

i believe lilgun or w296 would be a better performer....

Both would be.
Personally, I am using 32-34gr of Lil'Gun under the 440/Lyman#2/OAL=2.020"/1,550fps
(But at those pressure/fill-ratios, it's about a wash)

 

[snuffy]

http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-c501-440-rf.html

I didn't notice that boolit had 2 crimp groves! When I was lubing with grease, I filled the two bottom groves with grease, crimped in the top grove.

I used longshot powder in mine, a bit milder load. I did load some with H-110 and lil-gun, but a days worth of those is more recoil than I need.

Also b careful/watchful when loading lil-gun, it has gotten a reputation for barrel erosion at the cylinder gap, and gas cutting as well. Check with a feeler gauge. I can't find any locally anyway so I'll use 110 for full loads.