Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret, 308 Rifle shell loading, Case activated powder drop

[doze]

Hello,

Some backgroud:

I'm going to start reloading shells for .308 win and 7.62x53R at least.

I have decided to go with Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret press. I know the press is more suited to smaller pistol rounds. Some say that you can't even use the auto indexer when loading for .308 win, because the turret starts to turn before the bullet has fully cleared the seating die. But it's not a huge problem for me, I can turn the turret manually if needed.

Although in this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0e-GjYKGL4 (see around 8:20), he's loading .308 with the auto indexer just fine. I think that the clearance issues are only with the "normal 4 hole turret", the classic version seem to have a little more room for the round.

In any case, now I'm thinking a way to load powder to the shells case activated.

So to the issues:

It seem's that one should use Lee Perfect Powder Measure together with Lee Universal Charging die to load for larger rifle cases to get enough powder to the shells. But the problem is that that PPM with the universal charging die can only be used with Load Master or Pro1000 presses because the return ball chain has to be pulled back by the ram. In turret press the whole setup turns and you cannot setup the chain to the ram. So it would need to be returned manually for every load.

The Lee Auto Disk and Pro Auto Disk Powder measures are designed to be used with the Lee Turret press, but the problem there is that even with the Double Disk setup, the max load you can get is about 44.5gr with Vargent. So it's at the low end for .308 and not quite suitable for larger rifles.

What do you suggest to use with the Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret to get case activated automatic powder handling?

The choises with Lee products seem to be:

1. Use Perfect Powder Measure with Universal Charging die and return it manually for each load.
2. Use Pro Auto Disk and calculate so that it does half load of what you want and then load each shell twice (that's what the guy on the youtube video is doing).

Is it possible to just setup 3 disks to the Pro Auto Disk with own longer screws? Would that work?

Some have referred to Hornady and RCBS products you could setup to the Lee turret press, but I've read that they might cause problems with the auto indexer because most are hevier than the Lee powder measures. Also I'm not sure what products they are referring to as I'm just starting with this reloading business and don't have much experience.

It would be nice if some of you more experienced loaders and/or Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret press users could give some advice on what to do with this. Thanks!

 

[greyling22]

I suppose you could also drill out your holes a little larger, but I'd try taking 3 disks, glueing them together, then using longer screws and some creative hole sizing. It should work in theory. But I've never found the auto disk or even the perfect powder measure to dispense quite accurately enough for me when I load for rifle. I've stated trickling by hand into a balance scale.

the classic does have more room for longer cases than the deluxe.

 

[rondog]

I use my Classic to load .30-06, so it'll handle the length of .308's no problem. But for charging the cases, I use a couple of plastic loading blocks and a Lee powder funnel. This way I can setup 100 cases and fill them all up, and look in each one with a pocket flashlight to check the powder. Since the cases are already sized, trimmed and primed, after charging I just use the press to seat the bullets and crimp them.

I fill a coffee cup with IMR4895 and use the powder scoop for the amount I want. If you fill the scoop the same way every time, the powder charges come out so close to each other it's almost perfect. I'll dip the scoop in the powder and tap it on the rim of the coffee cup to knock off the excess. Just do it the same way every time and it works great. Use a scale of course to check your charges and hone your technique, and figure out which scoop to use.

When you try dumping large amounts of powder from the Pro Auto Disk with two discs stacked, it's very easy to get in a hurry and cycle the press before all the powder has dumped into the case. Then you get powder all over the place and it'll make your butt red and your jaws tight. Found this out with .223's, so now I pause an extra second to let the powder dump completely.

And be careful turning a Classic by hand! The ram has to be raised at least halfway first, or you'll destroy the "little square black plastic thingy" that turns the drive rod. Try turning the turret with the ram all the way down and that plastic thing will die an early death.

 

[Fishslayer]

Lee sells a double disk kit. It's essentially an extra set of discs and a couple of screws.

And be careful turning a Classic by hand! The ram has to be raised at least halfway first, or you'll destroy the "little square black plastic thingy" that turns the drive rod. Try turning the turret with the ram all the way down and that plastic thing will die an early death.

Yup. A new one is $.50 from Lee. Ask how I know.

 

[rondog]

Yup. A new one is $.50 from Lee. Ask how I know.

True, but if you don't damage it you won't have to replace it, and have your press down while you wait for the mail.

And I don't know for sure if the double disk kit has enough capacity for large rifle cases anyway. Maybe not. .223, .44 mag and .45 Colt are pushing it.

 

[DanTheFarmer]

Good Afternoon,

I haven't had problems with the Lee Classic powder drop with my 257 Roberts or my 7mm-08. The loads I've been working up have normally been in the 40 - 50 grains of powder range. I use the disk doubler kit and stack so that the weight dropped is as close as possible but below the desired weight (this is usually the two biggest holes, but sometimes another combination is the proper one). Then I trickle up to the proper weight. It doesn't really matter time and effort wise if I have to trickle in a small amount or a slightly larger amount.

For rifle loading I take out the auto indexing rod and use the press as a single stage, but a very convenient one because manually spinning the turret gets me to the powder drop, the bullet seater, crimp die, or the sizer. This is great when you've loaded 19 rounds properly and had an oops on #20 and need to re-do one round.

I haven't had any clearance issues due to excessive cartridge length. My longest rounds are about 2.82".

Good Luck.

Dan

 

[doze]

I suppose you could also drill out your holes a little larger, but I'd try taking 3 disks, glueing them together, then using longer screws and some creative hole sizing. It should work in theory.

Don't know about the glueing part, but to me the simplest way seems to be to just use three disks with longer screws if two isn't enough.

Lee customer support says that "You are able to get a very wide range of loads using the Double Disk Kit. It is more than sufficient for the 308 Win. You are not able to use a third disk and a third disk is not needed."

Might later load 45-70 and don't see why three disks wouldn't work just fine.

I use my Classic to load .30-06, so it'll handle the length of .308's no problem.

That's great, Lee customer support replied also saying "You can use the auto indexing feature on the Classic Turret Press for rifle loads, NOT the Lee Turret Press which is featured in the Deluxe Turret Press Kit (part number 90928). There are not any indexing problems when using the Classic Turret Press for rifle calibers.". They are littlebit different and Classic has a bit more room. Now that I looked more into it, the product page at Lee site actually says "The long stroke allows rifle cases over three inches long to be loaded using the automatic index. Deactivate the Auto-Index and cases over 4 inches can be loaded.". Didn't notice that before. The presses are named so close to each other that I've probably mixed them up when I've been reading posts and user experiences about them.

 

[rondog]

The Classic (the "good one", IMO)



The Deluxe (meh, the "not so good one, IMO)

 

[Lost Sheep]

Not enough powder?

The Lee Auto Disk and Pro Auto Disk Powder measures are designed to be used with the Lee Turret press, but the problem there is that even with the Double Disk setup, the max load you can get is about 44.5gr with Vargent. So it's at the low end for .308 and not quite suitable for larger rifles.

What do you suggest to use with the Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret to get case activated automatic powder handling?

The choises with Lee products seem to be:

1. Use Perfect Powder Measure with Universal Charging die and return it manually for each load.
2. Use Pro Auto Disk and calculate so that it does half load of what you want and then load each shell twice (that's what the guy on the youtube video is doing).

Stroke the press twice when actuating the auto-disk die station. Get two powder dumps.

Just be sure to NEVER FORGET to get the double charge. And don't do a triple.

The ratchet only turns the indexing rod in the lower portion of the stroke, so if you short-stroke the handle and DO NOT LET THE RATCHET GET ONTO THE TWISTED PART OF THE INDEXING ROD, this will work.

Rondog, if you take the indexing rod out, there is no danger to the ratchet by manually rotating the turret head. Of course, you have to take care when you re-insert the rod to restore auto-indexing.

Rondog, you also have a good idea in the scoop and funnel idea, but you did not take it far enough. You can charge powder in the press just like the Auto-Disk does by simply putting the funnel in the powder charging die. The collar on top of the die and the funnel neck are made to slip together. In this way Doze can still do the continuous (straight-through) mode (rather than batch mode) processing. He just uses his hands instead of the Auto-Disk.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

And be careful turning a Classic by hand! The ram has to be raised at least halfway first, or you'll destroy the "little square black plastic thingy" that turns the drive rod. Try turning the turret with the ram all the way down and that plastic thing will die an early death.

The position of the ram is irrelevant. It is the DIRECTION OF LAST TRAVEL of the ram. If the ram's last direction of travel was DOWN, the ratchet is up against the notches and thus, is at risk. If the ram moved up as little as 1/4" (or 4 or 5 mm) the ratchet (dragging down on the indexing rod as it is designed to do) is no longer engaged with the notches and is safe.

Alternatively, you can grab the indexing rod with thumb and forefinger, lift and drop. That reliably disengages the ratchet, too.

Of course, if you rotate the turret by hand only in the FORWARD direction, the ratchet is not endangered, either.

Simple enough to see once you have taken one apart once. But you have to use a strong light, it is hard to see the notches in that black plastic.

Good Luck,

Lost Sheep

 

[rondog]

Rondog, if you take the indexing rod out, there is no danger to the ratchet by manually rotating the turret head. Of course, you have to take care when you re-insert the rod to restore auto-indexing.

Yep, I do that all the time. Use my press single-stage a lot. The rod is probably out more than it's in.

And I just prefer using the loading blocks with large rifle cases. That way I can charge 100 at one time, verify the charges, and then seat bullets. I realize of course that I could put the funnel in the charging die, but I just prefer my method. I also prep and prime several thousand cases at once too, even all my pistol calibers. Then I resize without the decapping pin and finish them. Just my way of doing it.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Yep, I do that all the time. Use my press single-stage a lot. The rod is probably out more than it's in.

And I just prefer using the loading blocks with large rifle cases. That way I can charge 100 at one time, verify the charges, and then seat bullets. I realize of course that I could put the funnel in the charging die, but I just prefer my method. I also prep and prime several thousand cases at once too, even all my pistol calibers. Then I resize without the decapping pin and finish them. Just my way of doing it.

Oh, yeah. Having once run my auto-disk dry (and having to pull around 30 bullets to make sure I got all the uncharged cartridges) I can REALLY see the advantages of batch processing, especially charging the cases with powder. And the OP's methodology might also benefit. Inspection of the cases to ensure a full charge and not any overcharge is MUCH easier.

To each their own and some loading tasks are more appropriate for continuous processing and some for batch processing.

The glory of the Lee Turrets (and especially the Classic Turret) is that it is equally amenable to picking the process that suits your task best.

You design your process, develop an algorithm and follow it. The OP is almost there.

Lost Sheep