Lee Classic Loaders and Neck Tension

[Honest John]

For the past two years I've been using a Lee Classic Loader for .45 ACP. It's slow but until today I didn't have any problems I couldn't solve. One of the things I haven't had to learn anything about is neck tension, which is apparently the source of my current problem.
I've been in the habit of just discarding any cartridge cases that failed the finger push test after loading, assuming they were worn out and beyond the scope of my equipment's ability. With these attriting out at 5-8% I wasn't really concerned.
However, I recently bought some new Starline brass and after firing it once, the first three cartridges have failed the finger push test after reloading! I assume the rest will as well.
Is it finally time for me to upgrade to a Lee Classic Turret? Will a more sophisticated kit help me with this problem?
Thanks in advance.

 

[deadeye dick]

The dies are the problem not the press. If you buy another press you will be using the same dies I assume. Try adjusting the FCD and see what happens. I load a lot of .45ACP on a Lee turret with no problems. Lee makes quality loading equipment.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Is it finally time for me to upgrade to a Lee Classic Turret? Will a more sophisticated kit help me with this problem?
Thanks in advance

No, it isn't. The dies are the problem as deadeye stated. Are you using a FCD? You didn't say that in your OP but I suspect the same thing. Over crimping with a FCD will swedge down the bullet to a smaller diameter and loosen it in the case. The case will spring back some, the bullet won't.

By the way, it take more than a finger push test to say you have proper neck tension. I get 35 to 45lbs of force to move a bullet in one of my cases with just a taper crimp to straighten out the flare from the flaring die.
Also make sure your resizing die is touching the shell plate with the ram all the way down. You want to just touch it against the shell plate and not really pre load it.

 

[[email protected]]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that you are actually using the Lee loader that you drive the case in with a mallet. If so there is nothing you can adjust to change how much the case is resized. You are at the limits of your equipment and will have to find a die that will size smaller. You will have to try a different lee loader or upgrade to a press.
As far a dies I no longer suggest lee dies. I have seen several conplaints on this form alone with problems with neck tension. I myself have two die sets that have a hard time with jacketed bullets. I was left sorting by headstamp until I got a lee undersized die.

 

[Scimmia]

If you buy another press you will be using the same dies I assume. Try adjusting the FCD and see what happens.

Are you using a FCD? You didn't say that in your OP but I suspect the same thing.

Pretty hard to use the whack-a-mole dies in a turrent press. No FCD with the Classic Loader kits, either.

Might help to read/understand the post before responding, guys.

 

[LAGS]

The Lee Classic loader only neck sizes the case to Minimum standards.
If you are using the cheaper brass like starline, the cases are made of slightly thinner material.
So even if the case is sized correctly, the inside dimention is still too big to hold the bullet.
I never had issues with using Military Brass.
Also, try not expanding the necks or flaring them at all.
The Lee Clasic loader is not a Precision peice of equipment.
It is just made so you can reload ammo that will fire, but you have to know it's limits.

 

[rcmodel]

Emmmmm?
Starline isn't 'cheaper' brass.

It's actually some of the best handgun brass you can buy.

The OP''s problem is the Whack-mole Lee Loader he is using.

rc

 

[gamestalker]

Being that there is really nothing mechanical about those little gadgets to speak, I would venture to guess that it either worn out, or it has inadvertently been damaged. Maybe it got bent out of round, got expanded, deformed, fractured or something by someone beating on it, oh, I forgot that's how they are used. But seriously, maybe it got hammered on with a steel hammer a bit too hard or something?

And as for stepping up to an actual press, yes, it's probably about time. Maybe not the best time, but certainly time. And since you are so accustomed to working with the most cumbersome of methods, you would probably feel well served with just about any press, including a single stage.

I just caught that Starline brass comment and had to put in my .02 worth, and Starline is anything but low grade brass, it's top notch, so it's definitely not a Starline brass issue.

Friends, don't let friends, reload on a Classic loader!

GS

 

[Dave Bulla]

Now now, play nice.

I don't load for 45acp at all but I use the heck out of the Lee Loaders and have them for nearly every gun I own. There is a slight chance that your die is somewhat worn out but I think it's actually quite unlikely. I have however run into a situation where I had two kits in the same caliber and the one sized the neck smaller than the other. You might have a die that is a tad on the large size but rather than being worn out, it probably was made that way.

Also, has anything changed besides the brass? Are you using a new box of bullets? For that matter, are you loading cast or jacketed?

Also, are you loading one round at a time all the way or are you sizing a batch of brass then maybe tumbling them and then priming etc by the batch? If so, any chance you got some unsized cases mixed in?

Do you have a set of calipers so you could measure case mouth thickness?

Like I said, it's possible the die is to blame but I'd look elsewhere first.

 

[LAGS]

I am sorry if I offended anyone.
But if Starline brass cost less, then it is Cheaper.
But personnaly, I did not get as many reloads out of them as my other brands of brass.
But for what I did pay for them, I truely feel I got my moneys worth.
It is good brass, Don't get me wrong, but I just like some others better but not just one brand.
It all depends on the caliber and loads I am using.

 

[Honest John]

Also, has anything changed besides the brass? Are you using a new box of bullets? For that matter, are you loading cast or jacketed?

No, I've only reloaded with one bullet type - Precision Delta 230 gr. jacketed.

Also, are you loading one round at a time all the way or are you sizing a batch of brass then maybe tumbling them and then priming etc by the batch? If so, any chance you got some unsized cases mixed in?

By batches. Since I'm a low volume shooter I can take care of my monthly brass in one batch, so the cases definitely went into and out of the resizing die.

Do you have a set of calipers so you could measure case mouth thickness?

Yes.

 

[RainDodger]

Echoing RC, yes, Starline is good brass. I've loaded thousands of them, generally in .38 Super. Never a neck tension problem. you've got a die adjustment issue..

 

[mtrmn]

oops!

 

[Gadawg88]

+1 on Starline being good quality brass. I have loaded their 45 acp, 9mm, 38sp and 357 mag with zero issues using the LCT. Upgrade to the LCT if the budget permits. You will not regret it.

 

[AABEN]

For the past two years I've been using a Lee Classic Loader for .45 ACP. It's slow but until today I didn't have any problems I couldn't solve. One of the things I haven't had to learn anything about is neck tension, which is apparently the source of my current problem.
I've been in the habit of just discarding any cartridge cases that failed the finger push test after loading, assuming they were worn out and beyond the scope of my equipment's ability. With these attriting out at 5-8% I wasn't really concerned.
However, I recently bought some new Starline brass and after firing it once, the first three cartridges have failed the finger push test after reloading! I assume the rest will as well.
Is it finally time for me to upgrade to a Lee Classic Turret? Will a more sophisticated kit help me with this problem?
Thanks in advance.

ALL you need to do is read the instruction that came with your dies!! ADJ like it tell you about the crimp. Any dies will work if adj wright!

 

[AABEN]

The Lee Classic loader only neck sizes the case to Minimum standards.
If you are using the cheaper brass like starline, the cases are made of slightly thinner material.
So even if the case is sized correctly, the inside dimention is still too big to hold the bullet.
I never had issues with using Military Brass.
Also, try not expanding the necks or flaring them at all.
The Lee Clasic loader is not a Precision peice of equipment.
It is just made so you can reload ammo that will fire, but you have to know it's limits.

Lee dies does load good rounds if you will read the instruction that came with the die! They need to be adj. The instructions tell you what you need to crimp it a little more or a rill tight crimp. READ READ ADJ ADJ

 

[Honest John]

I have read the instructions that came with my Lee Classic (whack-a-mole) Loader. The part dealing with resizing die adjustment was very brief.

 

[witchhunter]

Honest, if you were to upgrade to a press and die system, you would be able to adjust your dies to achieve a better crimp. It sounds like the brass is your problem now though. Maybe you could try another brand of brass and see if it is indeed the issue?

 

[Honest John]

A friend with more equipment than he needs has loaned me a three-die Lee Classic Turret press, so I just need to mount it, get dies, and learn how to use it.

 

[mtrmn]

A friend with more equipment than he needs has loaned me a three-die Lee Classic Turret press, so I just need to mount it, get dies, and learn how to use it.

Bet your problem is solved....good friend there.

I guess not many folks nowdays have any idea what a Lee Loader is. I started with one over 30 yrs ago. "you just need to adjust your dies..."

May I suggest a carbide sizer die and a taper crimp die to finish. Carbide dies don't require lube.

 

[Kuyong_Chuin]

Lee dies does load good rounds if you will read the instruction that came with the die! They need to be adj. The instructions tell you what you need to crimp it a little more or a rill tight crimp. READ READ ADJ ADJ

There is no adjustments on a Lee Classic Loader. It is a field loading kit that you use a mallet or light hammer to load your rounds.