Lee Collet Neck Die question

[noylj]

The biggest cause of user problems with Lee equipment is NOT reading the instructions. They have very few instructions, but each is important.
Read the instructions on the Perfect Powder Measure and then look at how people try to use them...

 

[merrill]

Kingmt, as I read the instuctions, the 25 lbs refers to the force you apply to the end of the lever. The torque would be much greater. Torque is the force you apply times the length of the lever arm (handle) and is not measured in pounds.

 

[kingmt]

It would still be measured in pounds(in-lb, ft-lb). It still seems like poor instruction. It has been a long time since I have read them but as I remember if I set the die up per instructions my Pro1000 would put much more force on the neck then the RCBS Jr with the same amount applied to the handle. Now with the Jr set to cam over it applies much force to the ram then I can get on the Pro1000.

As said above I set mine to where I can just fell it bump. Perfect every time.

 

[magnatecman]

not Lee's fault that folks don't read the instructions or understand how the die works. a lot of folks use the Lee collet neck sizing die with excellent results.

The instructions leave a lot to be desired though! And I did read them very carefully.

It would still be measured in pounds(in-lb, ft-lb). It still seems like poor instruction.

This is what I thought too, I am thinking inch pounds, but the instructions just say 25 pounds.

I recently bought a set of these dies for my .204 and did the same thing, It sheared the threads right off the cap (aluminum).

I am using an RCBS rock chucker press, the instructions say to turn the die down till it touches the shell holder plus two full turns to prevent the cam over action from happening, thus making you feel the operation. The instructions also say that it takes considerable force to complete the operation.

I got 44 rounds before mine broke, I am glad I bought from Midway USA as they are taking care of me. I will use inch pounds and see if that is enough to get the job done this time.

 

[MrOldLude]

Neck-sizing doesn't take much force at all. It was stated that this was military brass. Once-fired? Because I haven't seen any discussion about whether or not the primer-pocket is crimped. And if so, that would be another cause of extremely hard resizing.

I use a universal decapping die on crimped primers. Bangs em right out.

 

[popper]

I had to 'pre-flex' mine a couple times after which it works fine. Take out the innards, install over a case that's in the shell holder in the press. Put a piece of metal on top (keep it from going through the normal die hole) and squish it a few times. Guess I need to pre-bend the steel fingers a bit.

 

[snuffy]

What few realize is the force applied to the end of the press handle is multiplied by a huge amount by the compound linkage of the press. Take the time to look at how the ram moves in relationship to the handle.

At first, the ram moves much faster with little movement of the handle. Then, it slows down at the top of it's travel, it's moving very slow in relationship to the handle. At that point the mechanical advantage is huge.

I'm no mechanical engineer so I can't put a number on the force multiplication happening, but it has to be in the 20-1 arena. That means that the 25 pounds of force at the end of the handle is 500 pounds!

500 pounds of force applied to the neck of the brass against the mandrel, forces the neck to conform to the mandrel. Additional force may make the brass flow forwards, but WON'T make the I.D. smaller.

More force results in the aluminum threads stripping off the plug. If that plug was replaced with steel, there would be damaged presses and sprung press frames, but no smaller inside diameter of the neck.

As I said in post #9;

Lee recommends 25 pounds of force is all that's required. If your necks don't have enough tension to hold the bullet, you can increase the tension by removing a small amount of metal from the mandrel. Chuck it in a drill motor, use some fine Emory cloth to reduce the diameter. A good micrometer is VERY helpful.

And was repeated by;

k4swb With Lee Collet dies, what you get is what you get. The inside neck size is maintained by the mandrel size and once you get to a certain point, that's all there is.

If you want more sizing down, take the mandrel out and reduce the diameter by whatever you want.
On most all of mine I have reduced the diameter by about .002".

It's worked for me and everyone else that's tried it. If you are possessed with 10 thumbs, or don't have a drill motor, then a call to lee will bring you undersized mandrels that will result in the smaller I>D> for the neck.

 

[kingmt]

I actually called & ordered a new mandrel because I wore mine down a bit. I still haven't replaced it tho.

magnatecman
I just barely have it bumping when it cams over. If I backed it out any then it would not size.

 

[magnatecman]

I should have my replacement die here tomorrow, so I'll be much more careful from here on out. This is my first time neck sizing and I didn't realize just how easy this should be to only size the neck.

 

[JohnM]

If you have a torque wrench, set it to 25 ft lbs and trip it on a bolt to see just how little force that takes.
Or just take a bathroom scale and push it to to 25 pounds.
Ain't much.

 

[cfullgraf]

It would still be measured in pounds(in-lb, ft-lb).

No, if the instructions meant torque, the units of measure should have been listed as inch-pounds (in-lb) or foot-pounds (ft-lb).

If they meant torque and only said pounds for the units, that is p*** poor instructions.

The unit of pounds is a unit of force.

 

[JohnM]

I saw somewhere a recommendation to hang 25 pounds a foot out on the handle to get an idea of how much torque to apply.
That would be 25 ft lbs at the first pivot point.
Still not an easy way to judge how much force to apply to the handle to me.

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

FWIW, I have mine adjusted just enough off cam-over to NOT cam-over under any circumstance of pressure or softer brass (the handle position is then just perfect for me).

When I cycle the ram, I hold down to the count of 5 (5 sec +/-).

That has always seemed to do the trick for anything I've encountered.

 

[popper]

Naterater - you probably will get a working die back from Lee. Someone will look at it, figure out the problem and fix it. they are a manufacturing company and well, everything isn't always 'right'. An average man can apply a max. of 25# without gritting teeth and grunting using arm strength only, not body weight. I know some here will disagree - just get your torque wrench out and try it, ~ 25 '/#. I went through 4 30-30 N/S die at the store before I found 1 taht would allow the inside part to rotate in the shell. Point is that tolerances stack up to where stuff JUST WON'T WORK. Cam-over presses are intended to give a tactile 'feel' so you know you bottomed the press out. It is NOT to take the slack out, no matter what the marketing spin is. You shouild lock your die into the press with a wrench, a couple #, to take out the thread 'slack'. If you adjust the shell holder to touch the bottom of the die when it's cam'd over and the 'cam' bump is .01", you will be trying to stretch your press .01 every time you cycle the ram. Eventually the linkage pins and threads will wear and weaken. With all the aluminum being used, wear out or broken parts, as you found out, will fail. I'm not bashing Lee, just noting some stuff doesn't work out of the box - saying YOU didn't do it right is not an answer.

 

[ranger335v]

"I use an RCBS and an old Pacific, both cast iron O frames, and I know they can't be damaged by a die."

IF you know that, you may have some learning ahead. I've seen a few photos of broken top straps on Rock Chuckers after the owners tried to push the shell holder into the mouth of a die. Meaning that nothing is 'fool proof' to a sufficently determined fool.

Lee's excellant collet neck die has a moving part that has a learning curve, it doesn't respond well to simplistic rote instuctions; seems some people just can't grasp that so they have a LOT of problems with it. They would be better served with conventional neck dies; just push the case in, pull the case out and use whatever the result is. ??

 

[splattergun]

now, I'm just a noob to this forum and to reloading, so you can take my comments for what you like, but I just learned to use my Lee collet neck die by incrementally increasing the pressure I applied to the handle using a dummy load.

After a few increments I found just how much pressure I need to apply to seat a bullet securely. It turned out to require more pressure than I anticipated, but it is certainly not enough to strip out the cap, break the press frame or bend the arm.

It's just like loading. Start low and work your way up until you find the sweet spot.