Lee Perfect Powder Measure

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chouse05

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Hey guys, I am new to reloading and I bought the lee anniversary kit. For the current amount of shooting i do it's perfect. However there is 1 serious problem i'm having. the perfect powder measure is (i believe) throwing inconsistently. What i mean is the kit came with a scale and I use it to measure 3 or 4 throws in a row and they aren't right. more often than not they are throwing heavy. That is a huge problem!! To date i haven't done any max loads but obviously i can't with the inconsistencies unless i measure every load (which i've been doing and it sucks it takes hours to do 100 rounds that way). This thread came from something someone replied to another thread about Unique not "metering" evenly. So what are your thoughts? Powder, thrower, or scale? Which is the problem? Or did i miss something in reloading school (google)....?

Thanks for any help
 
If you are using Lee's density information--or what ever it is called-- the information is only a guide. You must adjust the measure to throw the charge that you want and it will probably not be where the Lee tables say it should be.

One of the tricks to consistent charges is consistent operation. Do it the same way every time.

You will see a little variation in your powder charges. Plus/minus 0.1 is relatively usual and will not affect you loads as long as you are not at maximum. Sometimes you can do a little better.

Wipe it down with dryer anti-static sheets.

Some folks have good luck with the Lee Perfect Measure. I used one for a short while and dumped it. I could not get it to throw consistent charges and it was too stiff to operate.

I have several drum style measures.

Hope this helps.
 
Mr 05 -
Congratulations on your new acquisition. I know you're proud and assure you that you'll have many happy hours and thousands of reloaded rounds in your future. As to your question there are several areas you may wish to equally consider.....

• I believe Lee advertises their scale as accurate within 0.2gr. So you shouldn't be surprised that if you want to shoot max loads, then you'll simply need a better scale. Your scale will do fine for general plinking in the middle of the load range, but your observation is exactly correct. When you go high end of the load range then 1/10ths start to count. And the only way to measure down to the 1/10 grain is to buy a scale that goes there.

• Lee makes some great equipment and services a market segment that was generally over-looked until they arrived. But when you buy "the low cost leader" you can't expect Rolls Royce features. And so it is with the powder measure. If you'll stay in the middle of the load range with powders that work well in this type measure, then it will happily work for years. On the other hand, if you want infinitely adjustable powder drops which do not vary from drop-to-drop over 500 drops, then this is not the PM for you.


Luckily, in the reloading world you can 1) take steps to use powders that are friendlier to the PM you currently have, and at the same time 2) easily and affordably upgrade some of the pieces to bring them in line with the capability of the press and your needs.

Hope this helps! ;)
 
ok, mine goes down to 1/10, and it's been so on I check at the onset and go...

One thing I ran into, (with ball powder) is I had to re-seat the drum, tighten it up a bit, as the powder started getting in there and it really screwed up the throws... after I unscrewed, took the disk out, cleaned it all up, re seated it and tightened, it only took a couple of cycles to smooth out the tightness and it runs very smooth now... hopefully that helps, I have this set too and it's been super for me!
oh PS, on the scale, remember that the 1/10ths are tuned in with the 3 lines, and you want the middle on the tenth desired... (ie 1 line on the "1", one on "0" and one on "9" if you want no tenths, or zero.) Welcome to the reloaders world!
 
lee powder measure

Thanks for the replies....

So i'm gathering i need to measure several loads and make sure they are staying withing the 2/10th grain and from now on stay within the middle of my loading. I am happy with that. I guess the way i was setting my scale was not allowing me to see exactly what the measure was throwing (i was setting the scale to the load i wanted).
 
Try this:
Fill up the powder measure
Tap it a few times
drop at least 10 charges into a container, then put that powder back into the hopper. For now, it doesn't matter what the setting is, you want to see if it can throw consistent charges.

now drop 10 charges and weigh each one. See how consistent the are now. Is it repeatable?

Some loaders don't get consistent charges with flake powders like Red Dot or Unique, others don't get consistent charges with stick powders like Varget or IMR3031. I get consistent charges with both and very good flow with ball powders like H335, but it seems like YMMV.

The Lee instructions also state that with time, the measure will operate better as the graphite on the powders work its way into the measure. You can speed that process up by disassembling the measure and coating the parts with your own graphite.
 
IIRC, and that may all be a streach in itself, I believe Lee suggests to fill the powder hopper full and drop the powder as in making charges, do this twice. This breaks in the cone in the measure and the graphit on the powder lubes the measure. From that point on if you addjust the tension on the measure you should have no more problems.

I'll take issue with those claiming that the Lee does not throw consistent charges. I've got measures from the $60 Lyman to semi custom measures costing hundreds of dollars, my Lee will throw charges as accurate as any of them, at least with the powders I use.

I would recommend you get a better scale, the Lee is just to light to mess with.
 
jcwit,

I assure you i have followed all recommendations i've found from lee as well as what i've read online before i decided to post this thread. The inspiration for the thread came from something someone posted in another thread about Unique not "metering" evenly. That got me thinking is it the measure that is the issue, the scale or Unique powder i've been loading.

That all being said, i never read the 2/10ths grains accuracy i simply missed that somewhere along the lines. If that is the case i'll certainly take steps to assure i have the flexibility to allow that (ie: stay mid range in my loading no max loads).

As for the scale I at first was convinced it was my scale because i didn't understand how after running 50+ hoppers of powder through it was still throwing inconisistent. However, after measuring several loads and checking the zero it was not needing to be re-zeroed. So i went back to thinking it's the hopper. I had similar results when using w231 powder.

Do you have a scale you recommend? I don't have an unlimited budget and if it turns out what i need cost more than i can spend now i'll just have to save up.

FYI I don't think i mentioned this but i'm loading for a .40 and .45 pistol

Thanks again for everyones advice.
 
Lee advertises the Safety Measure as being sensitive to 0.02gn.
It is warranted to +/- 0.1gn as are all reloading scales (except for some very inexpensive electronic units).
0.2 gn is not going to blow up your gun and is in the range that most measure fall into.
I find Lee's PPM is as good as any other measure and will generally throw within +/- 0.1gn, but some powders, like Unique, can be +/- 0.2gn--as with most volumetric measures.
The original poster said that most charges were heavy. I'm confused as that means that one should turn the measure down to get the "right" charge.
The biggest problem I found with the PPM is that the mount isn't strong enough. You do not want the mount and measure to flex while you are cycling it. Also, you must always be consistent with how you operate any powder measure.
In general, you move the are down and "tap, tap" then move the arm up and "tap, tap." This helps settle the powder consistently. Some people put a cell phone vibrator on the measure to keep the powder consistent.
If you are trying to read the cubic centimeter (c.c.) vernier and get exactly what Lee or the powder manufacturer claims to be the bulk density of the powder, you will find that it is very mush a lot and environment dependent measure.
 
I assure you i have followed all recommendations i've found from lee as well as what i've read online before i decided to post this thread. The inspiration for the thread came from something someone posted in another thread about Unique not "metering" evenly. That got me thinking is it the measure that is the issue, the scale or Unique powder i've been loading.
Click to expand...

You asked for our thoughts, in fact your exact words are

So what are your thoughts? Powder, thrower, or scale? Which is the problem? Or did i miss something in reloading school (google)....?
Click to expand...

So I gave mine, not knowing what you may have done or not done. How would I know if you've even read the instructions.

[QUOTEThat all being said, i never read the 2/10ths grains accuracy i simply missed that somewhere along the lines. If that is the case i'll certainly take steps to assure i have the flexibility to allow that (ie: stay mid range in my loading no max loads).

][/QUOTE]

This is nothing I've mentioned.

Do you have a scale you recommend? I don't have an unlimited budget and if it turns out what i need cost more than i can spend now i'll just have to save up.
Click to expand...

As far as a recommendation any of the beam scales by the major mfg. that are metal and have some substance to them. For a beam scale I use an RCBS 505, I also use a "cheap" read inexpensive, electronic scale I bought years ago that serves my purposes well. It measures 2 hundredths of a grain heavy which means I'm actually 2 hundredths light, but it repeats this on the button every time. I do not load to the max so 2 hundredths is of no consequense. Myhap my check weitht is 2 hundredths off, who knows. Anyway tenths is all I'm concerned about.
 
Some might consider it a sin, but I got mine to throw super accurate by filling it with a quarter cup of h4895 mixed with an 1/8th cup of graphite, and cycled it twice. ( a trick I Picked up from a friend )

I then cycled a cup of h4895 through to clean out the excess graphite... I've never had any static issues, either. ( Never used either of these to charge rounds, btw)

Nonetheless, it still throws charges that aren't up to spec from time to time. ( bout one in 20) I weigh each charge I throw, and the ones that deviate by more than 1/10th of a grain on my digital scale go into my recycling cup. at the end of each charging session, I just empty the recycling cup back into the hopper, and the hopper back int to the storage container.

Its not the Cadillac of powder measures, but its a damn good K car.

Would this work for someone who loads a thousand rounds a week ? Mebbe not... But I dont... Even if I did, I would still weigh each and every charge, so a $200 powder charger/measure wouldn't save me a lot of time anyways !
 
Lee's "Perfect" measure isn't perfect but it's about as good as they get for most uses.
No measure will drop any powder to a precise charge weight, that just ain't in the cards. Each powder type (ball, flake. tubular) will measure differently, flake is generally the worst for any measure but it works well in handgun loads so we put up with it. Operator consistancy is a learned thing and it's more important than the brand of the measure.

Set your scale to the weight you seek and adjust your measure to that point, if it's consistantly high or low the measure needs further adjustment. Few reloads need be weighed/trickled to a precise point, especially so for handgun ammo; +/- .2 gr. is fine for most stuff.

Any reloading branded beam scale will do all that you need. Including Lee's "Safety" scale but that one's the pits to use for much, IMHO.
 
Also, I've been a rifle loader for some time...and always fared well using my lee for rifle powders.

I actually got linked in to THR for handgun reloading ( recently) and handgun powders (recently) for that matter as well.

The lee doesn't like Unique... or many flake powders, from what I'm gathering.

However, most measures don't, as stated above !

I have gotten it to throw about 50 % of the charges smack on... the rest go in the recycling cup :)
 
I have the anniversary kit also. I ran into two major problems. one I've never gotten consistent enough charges to not use a trickler. also on the scale the "v" where the beam sits needs to break in. My scale would hang every once in a while. I took a little hoppes #9 and a q-tip and cleaned the metal blade and the "V" before loading every loading session. after about 1000 rounds it was smooth as a whistle. just get a trickler for the powder thrower. or get an auto disk, but for big calibers probably won't work
 
Mine throws IMR4064 and H4831SC better than my Lyman 55. The Lyman wins, hands down, with ball powders.
 
thanks again for the replies....

reading your comments shows me where to eloborate my original post. The largest frustration with the thrower was in the adjustments. I tried the whole chart on the pamphlet that came with the measure and found it wasn't matching up to the scale so i just hand tuned it got it close and started throwing (after running about 3 hoppers through to coat the parts). When it started throwing heavy the first few times i tried to tune it down after screwing with it for an hour i walked away. Sat down the next day to load some more...same issues. I simply couldn't get the booger to be consistent. I had it set to 5.8 grains of unique for a plinking load .40 s&w MBC 140grn lead. at any rate i end up trickling from a spent 30-06 case. at first i was trying to put everything right on the money but after just went to try to get it close...this is a very frustrating way of doing this. Anyhow, I am not asking this thing to give me 5.8grains on the nose every charge every time but damn get me close and it wasn't....and even in this thread i've read mixed reviews....kind of what i found in other reviews as well. I like the kit for the price i was just astonished i could get started that inexpensively. I found the same issues with w231 i'm just now getting a few different powders i'll keep playing with it.

Thanks for the advice on being consistent in my methods, and i'll make sure i give it the raps it needs to keep that spout full.

1 more thing....i've loaded about 3 or 4 hundred rounds now but having to trickle from the spent rifle case on the scale....so this hopper (i would think) should be well coated....
 
just set it low and trickle up.... you will find a sweet spot where is you set it low and then about half of them will land dead on, and the rest you trickle a couple pieces in and they are very consistent
 
Not even Benchrest shooters weigh every charge. Volumetric has been good enough for long range rifle for years. Consider what percent of you load is represented by 0.2gn. It's nothing.
In the world of handguns, we have been metering Unique by volume for over 100 years.
The only powders that concern me, from personal experience, are Clays and N310. I have had some LARGE increases in felt recoil with just a 0.2gn increase in those powders. That extra 0.2gn felt like it took the load right to max of what I want. Never had that with any other powders.
In fact, I find that Unique and Herco in magnum calibers will let me know the max load by NOT showing any increase in velocity for a 0.3gn increase in charge weight. That is the one time where a chronograph has really let me know that something was up and it was time to not go any higher.
With Unique, it gives me great accuracy in spite of the metering problems and it has never shown any "hockey stick" increase in pressure. I find that Red Dot and Unique are always within the top 4 or 5 powders in terms of accuracy in my non-magnum handguns.
 
Most of the time, .1 or .2gr will not make much difference. in other words, if you CAREFULLY, with a good scale, load a series to be fired, say, 5-10rounds, the variation from high to low, will be more than the variation from the test load to the next heavier/lighter test load if the weight difference is held to .1-.2gr.
I've had quite a few shooters tell me they can tell the difference between two rounds that were loaded .2-.5gr apart, by just shooting them. POPPYCOCK!!!
Why are there pressure guns, and chronographs? I'm sure someone will tell me that it's to quantify, and that's true, but it's also to compare.
If you are loading to a point that .2 will make a difference from a KB, I don't want to be anywhere near you!!!
Semi-autos, especially handguns, have a narrow window of pressures/velocities so that loading hot, or max, doesn't get advantagious. Max, for an auto, means that more will cause unnecessary wear. Why beat the gun up for no real improvement? If you want that .45 Auto be be THAT much hotter, trade it for a .45 WinMag. Autos can be tuned for different ranges of pressures, ie light target, or +P, but even THAT window is small.
I can get my .45 to reliably shoot 230gr at 650-700fps, or 900fps, but what's the advantage? of the 900fps-er, anyway?
Some confuse "dirty" with seeing a few kernals of semi-burned powder in the bore.It's blown out of the barrel by the next bullet before the next bullet gets to the 'kernal.' 'Dirty' is found by running a tight, cloth patch down the tube, and two different powders MAY be difficult to quantify.
Unique is a little more erratic to measure than U.Clays, but not so much that it is a real problem. The only thing you can do is practice and get it right. What you might do is to prep say....1000cases, and start loading by measuring the powder into the scale before loading. You'll do whatever is necessary to get it to drop right! I've overstated the case, but my point is...just practice.
Why do I think I'm right? A chronograph, and a LOT of ammo!
Have fun,
Gene
 
Most of what I had to say was covered by noylj's post. I never gave the vibrator any thought but it might work.

I have no problem with ball powder(WC-744 or WC-748), flak(Bullseye), or tubular(Varget). The mane problem I found when first trying the measure was keeping it still. The more sturdy it is mounted the better it will measure. Mine is always spot on for the first 2/3 of the hopper capacity but the last 1/3 sometimes starts throwing lower charges with ball powder.

I bought this
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Click link.

Here is another Click & another Click
 
Most any powder measure will show charge weight variability when throwing flake or extruded powders, because gravity alone will not get them to evenly fill the measure's cavity. To fix this, use a knocker to rap against the hinge of the handle for each throw - this settles the charge in the cavity.

It's an old trick that's applicable to most any powder measure. I use a screwdriver held by the shank as a knocker. When you do this, you'll find that the measure throws up to a half a grain more per throw and is much more accurate.
 
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