Lee perfect powder scale... not so perfect

[gmbailey21]

I recently loaded 50 .444 shells to 40 gr of powder, a max load, and at the end, just for warm fuzzies, I checked my scale. Boy am I glad that I did, it was off. That 40 gr load was now 40.2, which could be dangerous. So an evening of bullet pulling (boy has that paid for itself) and wondering what happened...

The culprit is the spring on the scale zeroing screw (Lee Perfect Powder Scale, which is quite a ways away from perfect, but for the money would be good if it didn't cause itself to go off zero by design). The spring is pushing the screw to the left over the course of many loads. For now, I'm checking the zero about every 20 loads and staying at least a half grain under max for safety. I think I'll put a little loctite on the threads and rezero and see if that counters the spring enough to hold zero (while still keeping the design and ability to change it later intact).

Has anyone else seen this before?

In the spring, I'll likely buy a heavier weight scale (500 or 1000 grain max), any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[Mags]

I normally zero my scale by adjusting the screw, setting the tension on the screen. You should always zero your scale before loading for the day. Temeperature and humidity plays a major role in powder weight. I don't think anything is wrong with my Lee scale beside its low capacity.

 

[something vague]

I had a hard time getting used to that scale a while back. Never trusted the damn thing, especially after looking it over for quality of manufacture. The thing is even more useless than the leaky Lee PPM. Buy a new scale, I did the day after I was given the Lee and never looked back.

 

[TimRB]

Is that scale discontinued? I can't find any information on it.

That said, an error of 2/10 grain out of 40 is only a half percent error. If it really moves you into the danger zone, well, that seems a little too close to the edge for comfort for me. Most powder measures (not scales) give about that level of precision.

Tim

 

[Mags]

Lee currently make ths "Perfect Powder Measure" and the "Safety Scale" I have the scale and thought that was what the OP was talking about.

 

[ants]

Well, I guess it isn't false advertising if they didn't say it was perfect...

gmbailey21, that's an interesting observation on the spring. I'll keep an eye on it. I hardly every use the Lee scale (the O'haus is my preferred instrument, the digital jeweler's scale is second) but I've never had a problem with it. Thanks for the input.



Here we have an interesting experience: We always complain that the loading manuals seem to be getting more conservative, but with millions more reloaders every year and a 5 to 10 percent error probability, perhaps a little conservatism would seem to be a good thing in the interest of safety.

 

[TimRB]

Ah... the "Safety Scale" -- Thanks, RM.

At Cabela's that sells for about 22 bucks, and an RCBS 505 sells for about 75 bucks. A difference of 53 bucks, which is, admittedly, considerable. On the other hand, I have used a 505 for over 30 years without any problems whatsoever, and I don't have the faintest recollection of what I paid for it or how much I could have saved by buying something else.

Tim

 

[SSN Vet]

we just got a $350 lab scale at work that reads down to .001 grams (~.015 grains)

I dropped a penny and a dime on it and recorded the weights.

When I checked them on my Lee Safety Scale, I found that the scale was dead on!

I've wondered about the zeroing screw being under constant spring pressure, but I've marked the knureled surface of the zeroing nut with a black line and have not noticed any rotation of the nut over several hours of reloading.

IMHO, it's a great little scale... especially given it's low price

 

[Jumping Frog]

I think that all the affordable digital units on the market right now have a 10,000 to 1 resolution so a 20 gram scale can resolve .002 grams.

One grain is 64.935 milligrams so .002 grams is 0.0308 grains. This is reasonable for measuring powder charges accurately to 0.1 grains, not great, but reasonable.

At 20g full scale (308 grains) most pistol bullets can be weighed accurately and with a little trickery a loaded .45 cal, 230 grain, cartridge can be weighed. (@330 grains). These have been regularly selling on eBat for $20-25.

If you just want to measure powder charges accurately, a 10 gram full scale unit would be best. 10 grams = 154 grains and .001 gram = 0.0154 grains.

All these low end units are going to be reasonably accurate and definitely repeatable. I'd settle on one that is metal rather than plastic to keep static electricity in check when working with powders in a low humidity environment.

If I were buying now and I had $70 to spend on reloading digital scales I would buy two units, a 100 gram (1540 grain) unit and a 10 gram (154 grain) unit. With this combination I would be able to accurately measure anything I would encounter on my reloading bench.

 

[LightningMan]

Heck my Dillon beam powder scale is not right either, just for the hell of it I checked it against my RCBS digital scale and the Dillon scale was on the heavy side by a couple tenths. Now a days I use nothing other than my digital scale and I always check & set it every time in get ready to reload. LM

 

[soloban]

I couldnt figure out that goofy poise on the grain / 1/10th grain side. I couldnt figure out the line up three lines thing and I'm an engineer.

 

[jfh]

Watch for electronic scale variance as the battery discharges.

That has been my experience with the cheaper scales. The FA one--about $30.00 from Midway when I bought it--consistently starts to vary when the battery starts to run down. I've replaced it with another one--the "Reloader750", or something like that, from Midsouth. So far, that one holds its accuracy. It also is backlit, which is helpful for my aging eyes.

In our other discussions on this (search this forum), speculation is that the cheaper electronic scales do NOT have voltage compensation circuity, but that better ones may have them. The ones we (posters) suggested were ones available with a wall converter, and to purchase one of those--and to possibly not use an aftermarket converter; get the scale that comes with one. The last time I checked, those packages ran about $60.00 and up. See E.Arthur Brown for one that may be good, and cheaper.

I have a 505, but that is relegated to the nearby shelf because of space limitations at my actual reloading bench. The scale there is the Lee. I find it works perfectly fine, holding its accuracy. I confirm this intermittently with a set of (Lyman) check weights, and I have no problems.

FWIW, I weigh charges ranging from appr. 4 grains on up through what?--25 grains (H335, .223), and I have found it be consistently accurate to plus-or-minus-one-tenth grain.

As a side comment--many users complain about the adjustment of the (Lee) vernier scale for weight being "futzy." I have no problems with setting it using the following technique: remove the pan, pick up the bar (I need to do this because of bifocal issues). Leave the friction pins in, or "on." Holding the bar in both hands, place your thumbnails on either side of the vernier and push to the appropriate 10-10ths grain setting. I find I can easily slide the bar in small increments, centering it properly, and the setting stays because the pins are in. Replace the beam, being sure to center it properly in the magnet slot and on the balance. Place the 10-gr. ball in the appropriate increment, and you should be good to go once the pan is rehung.

Jim H.

 

[evan price]

If .2 of a grain puts you into the danger zone, you really need to rethink how you are creating your loads and start throwing each and every one.

An error of 0.5% on a scale that costs maybe $20 is well within acceptable.

 

[gmbailey21]

The Real Mags Lee currently make ths "Perfect Powder Measure" and the "Safety Scale" I have the scale and thought that was what the OP was talking about.

-Yes, sorry about that, it is the safety scale.

In terms of the comments about loading lighter, I usually load about a half grain to a grain under max load. In this case, I had trouble finding solid data and the listed loads online were up to 46, so I thought 40 would be a very safe load, however when actually talking to the powder mfg, it was just over their listed max but they said it should be fine based on the pressure of their listed max. I was already feeling a little off about them and thought about pulling them already, but when I found that they were an additional .2 over, that made the decision easy. I know, the web is not the best places for load data, lessen learned, more load books on order...

I always check zero before starting a batch, but prior to this mishap, I hadn't rechecked between loads during a batch. Now I check at least every 20.

Thanks for the recommendations, I already tried digital scales and went through 2 purchased online that arrived unable to accurately weigh things at all so I've given up on the digital scales. I've heard other good things about the 505 scale, so that will likely be my next scale. I like the Lee one, it's a nice scale for the money, just need to keep a watchful eye on that screw. I like the idea of the marker line, that should be helpful in keeping an eye on it. I've heard others complain about the way the hundredth is measured (.01), but haven't had any problems there. I don't know if I could reliably do the .005 measurement by their information, but the normal 3-line .01 measurement seems reasonable to me.

 

[P51D]

Hi, gmbailey. Which digitals have you been having trouble with? I have an FA scale from Midway, which is OK if you zero it frequently (after properly calibrating it, of course). I then got a RCBS RangeMaster 750, and the difference, in terms of convenience, is night and day. Once it's warmed up, it holds zero incredibly well. And since it has an AC adaptor and doesn't need to run off a battery (but that's an option), it isn't always turning itself off like the battery powered FA scale. The RCBS is well worth the money, for me.

BTW, I also have a Lee Safety Scale. It served me very well before I went digital. It does take some getting used to. But I still use it now and then, and I like to check all the scales against each other using calibration weights.

Just my two cents.

P51D

 

[sniper5]

I use a Lee Safety Scale and have no problem with it. I also purchased a set of calibration weights just to be on the safe side and find it to be dead on. . .if:

OK, I'm old school. Last of the slide rule generation (literally, last physics class to use slide rules in high school). A couple of things some newer guys don't know about the old school stuff.

You don't calibrate a beam scale because of the scale, you calibrate it because of the surface it's on. The beam will seek level, but the pointer moves as the surface is tipped. Anytime you move the scale it needs to be recalibrated. Any time you think a surface is truly level, set a marble on it and watch what happens. Verniers are hardly ever used nowadays and many people don't understand how they work. Read up on them. The Lee uses a vernier and is really confusing to a lot of people. A vernier is a way to make a short measure act like a long one. A lot of old gunsights were that way, and calipers, and micrometers. I used vernier calipers for years so it's second nature. Many have trouble understanding how to read them. Reference material is readily available on line. Hopefully this takes a little of the voodoo out of it for some.

 

[gmbailey21]

Yes it was a FA digital scale. Digital seems like it would be more convenient (for sure!) but I feel warm fuzzies about using the mechanical scales, somehow they just seem safer, especially after getting two duds.

I'll look at that RCBS, it sounds like I"ll be getting some RCBS equip one way or another, just will have to decide which way to go. I'll def keep using the Lee, I just need it to hold zero properly.

I knew about rezeroing when moving it, that's why I always rezeroed prior to each session. Will be running a batch next week, so I'll verify surface with a level and try the loctite over the weekend.

Thanks again for weighing in!

 

[MikeRz]

Sniper5,

I'm from the slide rule era. Heck, we actually put a man on the moon using slide rules! And you would have to interpolate between the lines... My son is stumped at how we were able to achieve great things with a 'slip stick'

Mike

 

[ranger335v]

"If .2 of a grain puts you into the danger zone, you really need to rethink how you are creating your loads.."

Ditto. And I wonder how it was estabilished that the Lee SAFETY SCALE was the one in error. ?? I have one plus a 1010 and another good beam scale, all three read the same in my shop. I don't use the Lee much, it's poise lock doesn't work, but I sure don't have any complaints about its sensitivity or accuracy!

MikeRz, kids are kids. They often seem to think they are the ones who "invented today" simply because it's all they have ever known. Never seems to enter their tiny heads that it was us "old, obsolete grumps" who actually handed them todays marvels on a platter, so to speak. And WE had to pass through school by actually leaning things, not just for showing up most of the time. Ah well...even they will be old - and maybe smarter - some day!

 

[aerod1]

My Lee Safety Scale has always wroked great. I check it against my electronic scale before every reloading session. It has always been very accurate.

 

[Hondo 60]

I bought the "Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Anniversary Kit" which comes with the "Lee Safety Scale ". I wanted to be able to weigh a finished round, so I bought an electric powder scale & found the Lee scale is off by exactly 1 grain. So my first few boxes had 5 grains of powder instead of 4.

 

[bluetopper]

I sure wouldn't pull any bullets if I was 0.2 off in 40 grains. Oh well.

On ebay, search for "carat scales". Lots of good inexpensive scales there that work great for powder.

 

[jfh]

"...so I bought an electric powder scale & found the Lee scale is off by exactly 1 grain...."​

And you know it was the Lee scale that was off and not the electronic scale because...?

Jim H.

 

[Sport45]

...I bought an electric powder scale & found the Lee scale is off by exactly 1 grain.

Sounds like operator error to me. Did you read and understand the directions?

 

[husker]

YURKO ill put my money on the the LEE Scale. not the digital.