Lee Pistol Factory Crimp Die Issue?

[PowderKeg]

Has anyone noticed a slight OAL length change when using a Lee FCD? I'm loading up some 10mm lead 180gr truncated cone bullets from National Bullet for my S&W 610 revolver. The bullets were seated to 1.258 - 1.260" with a Hornady die to just close the flare, then run through the Lee FCD to crimp. After crimping the OAL is 1.265 - 1.267". That's not much of an increase, and not something I'm worried about with the revolver, but I'm curious why the OAL would consistently increase like that.

 

[bofe954]

I only measure after using the FCD and I adjust seating depth based on that length so I would never notice this occuring.

I have wondered if crimping could change OAL but I guess I worried more about with boattail rifle bullets than straight walled pistol bullets.

Is the change consistent if you just adjust seat depth until the crimped OAL is your desired OAL?

 

[HSMITH]

This is happening becuase you are swaging the bullet down inside of the case. If you don't believe that pull one and measure it, it will be smaller than it started out.

The FCD really doesn't help anything and hurts most everything when loading lead bullets.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I agree with the above post. Just pull a bullet and see what you did to your "payload". I found that in particular, starline brass and Oregon Trail 200 grn 45 ACP's were a terrible combination. You could feel the bullet getting swaged going into and out of the die every time. I improved my accuracy by dropping the FCD on several calibers that I used to like them with.

The key is making it work with the right combination of brass and bullet and fcd die. Lead bullets, thicker brass and an FCD can be a bad combination.

I do like them in rifles and with the 357 sig though.

 

[Steve C]

It really isn't the FC dies fault but to paraphrase Peter M. Eick, its the combination of bullet diameter and case wall thickness. I like to use Remington brass with lead bullets as it has a thinner case wall than the other common brass. Starline's brass is exceptionally thick. Some lead bullets will expand the Winchester brass for example to the point it will not chamber in all my revolvers, specially my Colts which have much tighter chamber holes and generally shorter cylinders than my S&W's. I always test my revolver reloads in a Colt, if they fit the Colt they're no problem in any other revolver.

 

[PowderKeg]

Interesting, swaging inside the case didn't occur to me - although it's pretty obvious now.

I pulled one and found that the bullet diameter had dropped from .402" to .397", and the length increased from .630" to .640". This batch used ELD brass, but the Federal brass I loaded previously had the same "feel" running through the FCD - might pull one of those later.

The other reason for getting the FCD is that I've also had problems with chambering in the S&W - slightly expanded brass around the bullet from seating would require an extra thumb mash to get some rounds to seat fully in the cylinder. At least these FCD'd rounds now drop in smoothly.

So Starline is thicker? I was planning on ordering some shortly - cheaper for a 1000 new than what once-fired was selling for (/100) at the last several gun shows. May have to re-think that....

Thanks for clearing up that little mystery!

 

[SSN Vet]

once again I learned something very interesting on this forum

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Starline is definitely thicker and tougher brass then most other then maybe winchester. I am slowly switching over to exclusive starline brass (except the 357 Maximum which only Remington makes).

 

[snowranger]

Lee Fcd

Greetings, I was reading this thread and thought I would put in my 2c worth. I also experienced this problem with 223 fmjbt bullets and the FCD. After seating, the OAL would grow 5-6 thous. I thought it might just be a Loadmaster issue. I will pull some bullets and measure the diameter. I had not heard of this swaging problem before reading this thread and frankly didn't think it was possible. I will let you all know what results I come up with.

 

[Walkalong]

You are not just "squeezing" the poor round longer, you are loosening the cases grip on the bullet. Nope, I'm not a fan of the FCD. I tried them, against my better judgement, but quit them.

There are better ways to solve the problem the FCD die is touted to fix.

 

[GooseGestapo]

There are actually two different designs in the factory crimp dies.

The PISTOL dies for the STRAIGHT WALLED cases will swage your bullets down. I DON'T use nor recommend these. If you are having chambering/feeding problems with your ammo, you need to look elsewhere.

The Tapered cartridge case PISTOL dies (9mm Para) will only size the base of the case. I DO use an over sized die to finish the sizing process and apply a taper crimp. I "NECK" and slightly size with a regular die on my progressive (along with decapping). This eliminates the "coke" bottle look and over sizing of the 9mm which creates excessive run-out and poor accuracy.

My cast 122gr TC loads will shoot >2.0" at 50yds from my S&W PPC-9 6". 24rds, not 5 or 6. I couldn't do this without the custom set of Lee dies, to include the Factory crimp die.

The RIFLE factory crimp dies are an entirely different animal.

The RIFLE dies use a stab type crimp to crimp the case without further seating or swaging the bullets. If properly adjusted they will not damage the bullet. If set WRONG they can over crimp and damage the bullet. I use the FACTORY CRIMP die for crimping my .30/30 and .35Rem ammo as well as cast bullets in these calibers and accuracy results are superlative.

I suggest you throughly read and re-read the directions that come with the dies. Also, read the Lee manual before purchasing the dies, if you have one.

 

[Lovesbeer99]

What type of loading are you guys doing? Like bench rest stuff?

I'm loading .357 and 38's using the full length FC die with great success, using only a very light crimp. I haven't rested the gun and experimented for supreme accuracy, but all of my loads using book recommended recipies have been more accurate the factory ammo, I'm using Oregon Trail cast bullets.

I loaded 5 .223 test rounds this weekend, and measured before and after the crimp die and found no issues with case length changes. Again I'm using a light crimp. I plan to load another 20 or so for testing this weekend and I'll test them 1 by 1 and repost if I find anything.

I'm starting to get the impression that people have a prejudice against this die, but looking back at some of the posts, there is a few people who really like them.

Enjoy and shoot safe (I do)
Lovesbeer99

 

[JollyWhiteGiant]

You can adjust the ammount of crimp applied to the case, if it is too much then back it off. If you are swagging the bullet down that much you definately have too much crimp applied.

Unless I get a case that is langer than usual or exceptionally thick I never have problems with mine in .45 ACP. A lot less problems then I did when I used the Hornady die to crimp my cases.