LEE question

[xtarheel]

Just read the latest issue of the American Rifleman. There is an article about LEE that looks like it was written by the LEE advertizing department.

However, it seems as if there is a lot of respect for RCBS, Lyman, Redding, etc, etc and then constant brickbats thrown at LEE. I'm just wondering why?

I started reloading when the only product made by LEE was the $9.95 reloading tool. I finally bought a Lyman press and dies made by Lyman and RCBS. All of a suden LEE started making dies at a lower price and everyone elses dies suddenly dropped in price. I wouldn't be surprised if I can buy a RCBS die today for about what I paid in 1973.

I like LEE's autoprime and I have a bunch of their dies, my press is a RCBS Rochchucker and I have scale and case trimmers made by others. Personally I think on some items LEE do a great job, but they have their place. But again, why the general animosity?

 

[benedict1]

You raise a most interesting question--who knows? I don't get it either. It is sort of a vendetta and surprises me constantly.

 

[Selfdfenz]

Excellent question and one that I've wondered about myself many times. Lee seems to be the company many love to hate or at least look down on.

From personal experience based on owning products made by about all of the major manufacturers a lot of Lee products are pretty good. Not every product they make is perfect but I've loaded some first rate ammo with their products. Stated another way, the RCBS presses and dies did not turn the small clover leaf groups I got with Lee reloads in to smaller clover leaves.

I'm pretty well convinced I'll never ware out any of the Lee dies I own. I still have my old Challenger, have loaded with it since the 80's IIRC and it seems to be fine also.

I guess some folks resent the fact that a lot of Lee's basic line i.e. dies, single stage presses, gadgets "can" load ammo as good [as determined by group size] as more expensive products offered by RCBS, Lyman etc. It messes up their "My dog's better than your dog" augument. Will it go toe-to-toe with the stuff the bench rest guys use...don't know. Not my game.
I think when someone compare a $27 dollar set of Lee's to $200+ set of bench rest dies and says the Lee's can't hold a candle, that someone is something of a bonehead. If I'm going to pay more for a competitor product it has to have some justification based on easy of use, adjustability etc over the Lee.

Some of the rifles I've bought over the years were in calibers I just wanted to play with from a reloading POV because I knew a set of Lee dies was dirt cheap and would answer all my questions. That economic calculus helped me discover a couple of calibers and a couple of firearms I now consider among my favorites.

Lee product pricing probably does help hold competitor pricing down for that part of their product lines that overlap. Looking at it another way, since Lee products are attractively priced they bring people into the reloading game that would have otherwise stayed home. I like to think their component purchases help leverage down the price of items I buy.

Just my to cents, YMMV.

S-

 

[m0ntels]

I have loading equipment from all the major manufacturers and some that dont exist anymore. All the Lee equipment will get the job done. Others may make things that look prettier or have some extra features. Sometimes Lee will be the only one using a new or creative idea to do certain things. You can look at it the same way you look at guns themselves. Rock Island, Colt, and Les Baer all make 1911 pistols. They all will do the exact same thing, but each company reflects what it feels is their own customer base's wants and needs. Lee makes things for the average Joe Reloader. Simply, the stuff works, just not always in the most glamorous way possible.

Randy

 

[Hutch]

Lee makes some very innovative products that are cunningly engineered to be inexpensive to manufacture. That being said, some of what they make is as good as it gets. I have absolutely worn out, as in, broke the frame, 2 Lee Autoprime hand primers. In my experience, nothing is better at any price, and if you wear one out in 20K rounds or so, you're still well served. I have had good luck with Lee dies, and the one described elsewhere (maybe on another thread) the "Final forever taper crimp finisher" die for 9mm has fixed a problem I've had with a Dillon die set. . That being said, the more moving parts the Lee product has, the more likely it is to wear prematurely and require tinkering. Some folks would prefer to spend on things other than reloading equipment or guns.... but I don't know why.

 

[Firehand]

In general, I don't know. I've heard of people having trouble with the Lee progressive presses, but as far as their dies and bullet molds, they seem to be good stuff. I've got several sets of their dies I've never had a problem with, and a couple of their molds that throw good bullets.

 

[wixedmords]

I have been using Lee equipment for 20 years now, along with others. I have used most of their presses. No issues to report.

I am certain that others make quality presses, but reloading to me is an money game, not leaving accuracy behind.

I would have no problem using a Lyman, Dillon, or RCBS (or others) presses and equipment, it is just that the Lee products just work. So why pay more?

I am not about making a million rounds in the least amount of time, I just want ACCURATE ammo, that I am SURE will go boom. Lee gets me there.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Lee seems to have an odd mix of equipment: some of it innovative, some of it very high quality, and some of it low cost, at the expense of quality. The low cost stuff does get a lot of people started in reloading. There will always be those that spend a lot of money on equipment, and then justify it by criticizing lower cost alternatives. And there are those that started out with Lee equipment, got the bug, but did not like some of the features (or lack thereof) of the low cost Lee equipment, so they "upgraded".

Innovative: collet neck sizing dies, factory crimp dies, case gauge/trimmer system, Autoprime (I think it was the first one, but it has been copied by many others now)

very high quality: classic cast and classic turret presses

low-cost: C-press, progressive presses, O-ring lock rings

Andy

 

[Uncle Don]

I am certain that others make quality presses, but reloading to me is an money game, not leaving accuracy behind.

I would have no problem using a Lyman, Dillon, or RCBS (or others) presses and equipment, it is just that the Lee products just work. So why pay more?

I am not about making a million rounds in the least amount of time, I just want ACCURATE ammo, that I am SURE will go boom. Lee gets me there.

I've been saying the same thing for quite some time, just not as well.

 

[wixedmords]

I've been saying the same thing for quite some time, just not as well.

Quite the contrary Uncle Don. I find reading your stuff quite good.

 

[IMtheNRA]

I think it's because many people naturally associate high quality with high price. In some cases, high price really means just high markup...

 

[trickyasafox]

i use all lee, and some of it (the pro 1000 in my case) can be a bit finicky at times. however i have never found it to be prohibitively / unsurpassingly difficult. i can't justify spending money on better stuff when this serves me as well as it does. maybe when im out of college and have some extra cash i'll upgrade, but untill then i am very content with what i can afford

 

[wrangler5]

I have, and have used, all the Lee press types (Hand, Reloader, Challenger, Turret and Loadmaster) over the past 25 years, and all have done the job. The Turret and Loadmaster did take some fiddling to get working smoothly, but once running they have run for years. I suspect that some people don't want to do ANY fiddling, and so conclude that "Lee is Junk" or some such and go buy something more expensive. A Lee customer service person said to me on the phone a few months ago something to the effect "our presses do seem to work better for people who are at least a bit mechanically inclined," with which I could not disagree.

Would I like to have the mechanical feel of a Dillon 650? Sure - I get to play with one in a local reloading supply store and it's delightful. But I priced one out with case feeder and appropriate feeder plates, other size primer system and the six shellplates and fully populated toolheads like I have for the Loadmaster, (but not any powder check systems, stands, covers, primer tube loaders or other accessories) and I think I could have bought SEVEN complete Loadmasters from Midway for what the Dillon outfit would have cost. A 650 can't be THAT much better than Lee, and that's gotta keep the Dillon types just a little bit hostile even if they do think they have a better machine.

 

[calzoom]

xtarheel says:All of a suden LEE started making dies at a lower price and everyone elses dies suddenly dropped in price. I wouldn't be surprised if I can buy a RCBS die today for about what I paid in 1973.

Kind of says it all!

There is a certain segment of consumers in this country that believe and promote the idea the more you pay for something the better it is. This has little or nothing to do with the quality of the product.

We have this going on with the Gasoline people today. And these enlightened people will pay 3.00 plus for .99 gasoline. Then swear it's worth every penny and more.

All through history this has gone on.

Then if some one comes out with the same product at a much cheaper price and it wears as good as the moneyed product the hate campaign begins.

For example (WalMart) and China made goods which Everybody Hates, yet Everybody Buys!

This follows the Glock industry as well as the KelTec, Cold Steel and other such industries. If it's cheaper than the normal run of merchandise it has to be cheap junk.

Phenomenal aint it?

 

[Selfdfenz]

Someone else almost hit on this but for me the only round I shoot in any kind of volume is 9mm. I have all the stuff to load it on my 1000, have done so and it worked fine. For me personally I can go buy 9mm for not much more than I can load the stuff on my 1000. If push comes to shove I have buckets of brass and I'll get going with the progressive. Since I am not a competitive handgun shooter having lots of the same ammo reloaded and ready to go every week or every few days is not a big deal to me.

My interests are those of someone with several different calibers that likes to tinker with different bullets and powders to develope diverse loads for the same rifle that are all accurate. The cost of Lee products matches my needs as an experimenter.

For me the features that might recommend a Dillion for ease of use or justify the investment on a cost basis just don't exist. The Pro 1000 was worth getting if for no other reason just to experiment. It takes some fiddling especially if you change calibers but once it's set up it works fine for my needs. If I have a gig on the unit it is that I have never been able to get the bullet feeder totally adjusted to work in a satisfying manner and so I don't use that. I think that may be partly my fault. Not sure about this but that attachment might work better with unlubed bullets and the lighter the better.
S-