Lee's Factory Crimp Die?

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CQB45ACP said:
Yes I know, but doing so can be counterproductive. Early on Steve Jobs to maintain total control of the Apple computer (before it was called Mac I think) wouldn't license it, so the IBM PC ended up controlling the consumer market.

We (I) dont even know if the Lee product is patented. Patents are of course public and are infringed all the time by US or internationals. If you really want protection, it must be kept as a trade secret and locked in Mr. Lee's safe. But either way, anyone can still reverse engineer the actual product and tweak it enough to avoid litigation. Better to license in the first place.

Overall I figure competitors just don't see a big enough market or we'd have Redding's version with a micrometer adjuster. Then I'd buy two more.
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You should re-read, “West of Eden.” It was Wozniak and Markula who wanted to keep the Apple OS in-house. The reasoning behind not releasing the Lisa code had to do with how they acquired it: they bought the WYSIWYG rights from Xerox. The code wasn’t Apple’s to give away.

There’s a lot more to every story than can be told in a forum post. Typically the truth is a lot simpler than the facts will indicate.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
You should re-read, “West of Eden.” It was Wozniak and Markula who wanted to keep the Apple OS in-house. The reasoning behind not releasing the Lisa code had to do with how they acquired it: they bought the WYSIWYG rights from Xerox. The code wasn’t Apple’s to give away.

There’s a lot more to every story than can be told in a forum post. Typically the truth is a lot simpler than the facts will indicate.
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I will.

Yeah I knew I'd get it wrong. Not to mention, patent & trademark law is only slightly less complex than rocketry.

There's the old saying, freemarkets were secretly devised by patent attorneys.
 
Just my 2 cents worth, I think the FCDs are good to have on hand. Like so many tools in my tool boxes that I rarely use. But they both come in handy from time to time.
 
Since we're discussing the FCD, I have a question. One (or more) posts in this thread stated that the FCD with the carbide ring sized down farther than a normal sizing die. If that's the case, would it be beneficial to remove the crimping portion of the die and just use it for the initial sizing step?

And if one did that, would they have to de-prime separately or could they put a de-priming pin in it and size/de-prime in a single step?

chris
 
ballman6711 said:
Since we're discussing the FCD, I have a question. One (or more) posts in this thread stated that the FCD with the carbide ring sized down farther than a normal sizing die. If that's the case, would it be beneficial to remove the crimping portion of the die and just use it for the initial sizing step?

And if one did that, would they have to de-prime separately or could they put a de-priming pin in it and size/de-prime in a single step?

chris
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Oh for crying out loud! Why would you do this? This thing was dying of its own weight. The OP's still AWOL. Nothing more to see here. But you needed to play.

First, the sizing die's ring isn't same diameter as FCD ring. I measured a 45acp FCD ring and it's .470" or thereabouts. The 45acp sizing die is more like .453". I didn't try for precise measurements since they were so far apart.

I took a picture showing a just sized case sticking up in the sizing die and one dropping in the FCD.

Now what's the rest of your question?

BTW, you know I'm just jerking your chain:)
IMG_4645.jpeg
 
CQB45ACP said:
First, the sizing die's ring isn't same diameter as FCD ring. I measured a 45acp FCD ring and it's .470" or thereabouts. The 45acp sizing die is more like .453". I didn't try for precise measurements since they were so far apart.
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I think this is the information I was asking for. Thinking about it now, it makes a lot of sense. The sizing die sizes the brass enough to give the bullet sufficient neck tension, whereas the FCD used as a sizing die wouldn't. Thank you.

CQB45ACP said:
BTW, you know I'm just jerking your chain:)
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I don't need to play anymore, the thread can die quietly now! :D

chris
 
ballman6711 said:
Since we're discussing the FCD, I have a question. One (or more) posts in this thread stated that the FCD with the carbide ring sized down farther than a normal sizing die. If that's the case, would it be beneficial to remove the crimping portion of the die and just use it for the initial sizing step?

And if one did that, would they have to de-prime separately or could they put a de-priming pin in it and size/de-prime in a single step?

chris
Click to expand...
No. Or, maybe. It depends.

The sizing die reduces the case diameter to a minimum chamber spec or close to it so it will feed into the chamber without a lot of thumbusting. That also happens to be small enough for the neck to hold tension. The FCD is only supposed to crimp the expanded neck around a seated bullet so it has good tension. There’s two types of internal crimping collar: roll and taper. The carbide ring is there to straighten out a wrinkle if you over-crimp by accident, try to roll crimp an over length case, or something similar; so that ring is at or near a maximum chamber spec.
 
9mmepiphany said:
...and 3 post after that explanation/ admonition, we have a perfect example of a worthless post
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It was sarcastic humor. I use them to crimp in a separate step. Hope that is usefull

Gee , the whole thread is useless (no offense to the op) there are hundreds if not more threads on the LFCD. All of them the same!!
Just scroll to the bottom of this thread or heaven forbid do a search!

You act as if there there is no threads of any topic that have useless posts? There are several going on right now. Endless nonsense.

Thanks for all your beneficial information.:notworthy:
 
Rule3 said:
It was sarcastic humor. I use them to crimp in a separate step. Hope that is usefull

Gee , the whole thread is useless (no offense to the op) there are hundreds if not more threads on the LFCD. All of them the same!!
Just scroll to the bottom of this thread or heaven forbid do a search!

You act as if there there is no threads of any topic that have useless posts? There are several going on right now. Endless nonsense.

Thanks for all your beneficial information.:notworthy:
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My guess is he knew yours was sarcasm and he returned the favor. I'm hoping that's the case cause yours was obviously so.

But c'mon I posted pictures on this one that's worth something.
 
CQB45ACP said:
First, the sizing die's ring isn't same diameter as FCD ring. I measured a 45acp FCD ring and it's .470" or thereabouts. The 45acp sizing die is more like .453". I didn't try for precise measurements since they were so far apart.

I took a picture showing a just sized case sticking up in the sizing die and one dropping in the FCD.
Click to expand...
index.php


What a great pic to show it as well. Love it. I like pics. :D
 
ballman6711 said:
I think this is the information I was asking for. Thinking about it now, it makes a lot of sense. The sizing die sizes the brass enough to give the bullet sufficient neck tension, whereas the FCD used as a sizing die wouldn't. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Correct, it's goal is to make sure the round isn't too fat, which includes the bullet and the case, so it has to be larger. A regular sizer would destroy a loaded round.
 
CQB45ACP said:
I will.

Yeah I knew I'd get it wrong. Not to mention, patent & trademark law is only slightly less complex than rocketry.

There's the old saying, freemarkets were secretly devised by patent attorneys.
Click to expand...
No problem. Sculley’s version of the Markkula-Wozniak-Jobs triangle is filled with errors, too. West of Eden is one version but most of the participants agree that he got the early history right - the parts that happened when he was still running Pepsi. Much like the stories about Lee. 😁
 
Mr Lee said that when he got the idea for the Carbide Factory Crimp Die, he had a bunch of carbide inserts that had come out too large for sizing dies, but worked to post size loaded rounds.
I leave one in the 9mm loader. With plated or jacketed bullets, it seldom does more than brush the case over the bullet, but will usually show a burnished band near the head where it sizes farther down than the mouth radius of the Dillon sizing die.
With larger diameter coated bullets, it will often show a rub mark over the lower bearing band of the bullet.

You will say I should improve my methods not to need the CFC.
Sorry, I don't care to maintain same lot number brass and jacketed bullet$. To load bulk ammo with mixed brass and painted bullets, I have to CFC for free chambering.
 
Other than the carbide ring does it put the same crimp as the seater / crimp die does that comes in their 3 die sets ?
 
red rick said:
Other than the carbide ring does it put the same crimp as the seater / crimp die does that comes in their 3 die sets ?
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Not mine. The seater/crimper for .38/.357 puts a deep roll in the case mouth that goes all the way to the bottom of a Keith style bullet’s crimping groove while the FCD puts more of a flattened edge that pushes into the crimping groove. It seems to touch less brass than the seater/crimper. When I want a really aggressive roll crimp I use my old Herters seating/crimping die.

I use the FCD mostly because it’s easier to adjust than a seater/crimper and I prefer seating and crimping in two steps.
 
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