legal "select-fire" option?

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DannyinJapan

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I seem to have read that it was legal for a gun to fire when the trigger is pulled and again when the trigger is released.
Would it not then be legal to offer a weapon that had a selector for this option?
Single, double, safe.
 
I believe it is a modification that the Mini-14 can achieve by using a simple paperclip.
The ATF was specifically asked about it and they allowed it.

Therefore, I don't see why a firearm can't be designed and built to do this whether it has a selector or not. It's a very good question, and probably a million dollar idea.


It was a member here who got the okay from the ATF.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=62411

attachment.php
 
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Legal. The problem that many have with a system like that is once you pull the trigger you are committed to that second shot no matter what.
 
Good point.

Of course, if the selector could decock the hammer as well, so that after the initial round you could continue to hold the trigger, then switch the selector, and release the trigger. The thought of having a rifle that has this capability is interesting, but it might be an engineering nightmare, I don't know.
 
And it would be good for what?

Making noise, burning up expensive ammo at double the normal rate, and missing with the second shot every time?

True burst fire sort of works because the gun cycles so fast it doesn't have a chance to recoil off target very much in a three round burst.

But you can't wiggle your finger 14-15 times per second to make that 850-900 RPM cyclic rate..

rc
 
I can fire my Bushmaster carbines legally, in virtual fully antomatic mode, with excellent control & from the shoulder, by bump firing them!
A vertical forgrip makes it possible for me, and will for you too...
 
Oh, I suppose if you needed to lay down some suppressive cover fire against the enemy, and you wanted to do it according to NFA law...:rolleyes:
 
Question:
How do you get a pro-RKBA/2nd Amendment advocate to sound like a Brady Org. anti?

Answer:
Show a whimsical interest in full auto, burst or bump fire. It never fails, you'll be told that it is impractical, dangerous, immature, boorish, useless and too difficult for a lowly civilian like yourself to administer. Pretty much word for word why Sarah Brady thinks you shouldn't own a handgun.:neener:
 
Question:
How do you get a pro-RKBA/2nd Amendment advocate to sound like a Brady Org. anti?

Answer:
Show a whimsical interest in full auto, burst or bump fire. It never fails, you'll be told that it is impractical, dangerous, immature, boorish, useless and too difficult for a lowly civilian like yourself to administer. Pretty much word for word why Sarah Brady thinks you shouldn't own a handgun.:neener:
Thats exactly what takes place, and if I may, they are the very reason we've had the majority of the 2nd Amendment usurped & whittled down to "legitimate sporting purposes!"
 
Question:
How do you get a pro-RKBA/2nd Amendment advocate to sound like a Brady Org. anti?

Answer:
Show a whimsical interest in full auto, burst or bump fire. It never fails, you'll be told that it is impractical, dangerous, immature, boorish, useless and too difficult for a lowly civilian like yourself to administer. Pretty much word for word why Sarah Brady thinks you shouldn't own a handgun.

Which is exactly what the average person says about handguns in places they are extremely restricted/banned.
You will hear this repeated strongly by most people in such nations. 99% of the population becomes antis after guns have been banned a generation or two. Even in places where guns previously had a lot of cultural support.

What does it prove? The best way to make a population support gun prohibition is to have gun prohibition.

Want people to support a ban on full auto? Put ownership of full auto out of reach of the average person and within a generation or two most will think it is crazy to freely allow it.
They will invent and repeat any logic to support the ban on the dangerous foreign object.

Put ownership of firearms in general out of reach of most people and within a generation or two most people will support extreme restrictions.
They will support keeping the dangerous foreign object out of the hands of most people.

I heard the same arguments about assault weapons after they been banned for almost a decade except by people that owned one. "Who needs 'assault weapons' when anything you need to do with a firearm can be done by these non-'assault' weapons".
Even by many gun owners. Now that the ban has sunset and several years have passed and such targeted firearms are more common that sentiment is disappearing.



Want to find the largest number of anti-gun people? Go to places that have had extreme firearm restrictions for a generation or two.
Some will be a little more for or against, but the majority will eventually be near the set standard.


Unfortunately it proves that people in general are easy to control. It is easy to make the population approve or disapprove of ideas or freedoms just by forcing them to adhere to one for a generation or two.
Many other places around the world have shown it too. Who would have thought a place like Australia with huge wide open landscape, a "bush" culture, and a population density relatively low overall would in a generation go from quite pro gun to primarily antis.
The population can easily be forced to adjust to a new "normal" that they base future acceptance of freedoms or liberties on.
Put legislation in place enough years and that becomes their new median in determining what is acceptable.
Some will stray a bit from that median, but most will not stray too far.

In the 1920s and 1930s the thought of restricting firearms in the way the NFA did was considered un-Constitutional by the majority. Most judges thought it would be thrown out as soon as it went to court. Even judges that supported the restrictions generally thought it would not pass Constitutional review.
Then the first time it was challenged and up for review (Miller case) the challenger dies before it gets to the Supreme Court. Nobody argues on his behalf. Even the Supreme Court acknowledges it would have been thrown out if someone could have submitted evidence such weapons were suitable in the "militia" or in the military (easy to do considering numerous short barreled shotguns had been used in WW1.) But that they could not consider evidence never submitted.
Then there was no similar challenges heard for decades, it became the new normal, and now it is firmly entrenched in the public's mind as normal and acceptable.
So simply by existing for a few generations it became the new normal. The median from which people draw their opinions. You could say the same for the GCA and similar things as well.
 
^^^ That about covers it, most have completely drunk the kool-aid, as a result they are totally cool with RESTRICTING ACCESS to not just particular firearms, but all firearms, which is in effect what NICS represents...
When the government denies ownership of any firearm to "We The People" while at the same time providing them to it's agents & agencies, it abominates the intent of the 2nd Amendment...
 
How about three thin triggers side by side and each coming slightly more forward than the next. Each fires a single shot when pulled. Three shot burst.
 
Wonderful post Zoogster. That issue has been welling up inside me for a while now, and you articulated it perfectly. Whether it's carry permits , NICS checks, felon disenfranchisement, magazine capacity, or weapon design/platform, prohibition numbs the populace to the respective infringement. Even "gun folk", as I jested, repeat this indoctrinated babble. I realize that this isn't the OP topic and I apologize, but I believe it is something that needs to be illuminated at every possible occasion. Teachable moments, as it were.
 
Question:
How do you get a pro-RKBA/2nd Amendment advocate to sound like a Brady Org. anti?

Answer:
Show a whimsical interest in full auto, burst or bump fire. It never fails, you'll be told that it is impractical, dangerous, immature, boorish, useless and too difficult for a lowly civilian like yourself to administer. Pretty much word for word why Sarah Brady thinks you shouldn't own a handgun.

That's a bit of a straw man. Just because bump-firing is stupid doesn't mean it should be illegal. That said, the last thing the shooting community needs is to have YouTube videos of someone bump-firing a gun show up at a congressional hearing.
 
Is it legal to have a trigger that makes three distinct action/function with every pull of the trigger. Thus firing three shots? The ATF response defines the machine gun as more than one bullet for more than one function of the trigger, not one pull of the trigger. What if the time and space between each action is really short?
 
That said, the last thing the shooting community needs is to have YouTube videos of someone bump-firing a gun show up at a congressional hearing.

I disagree. Congressmen should know how firearms work, and what they can be made to do in the presence of artificially rarefied select fire weapons. Deregulating machine guns would directly lead to reduced bump firing, and genuine select fire weapons are safer to operate when a high volume of fire is desired.

I guess what I'm saying is that we should not stoop to "their" level by hoping to keep legislators ignorant of the truth.
 
9teenEleven,

I proposed a similar thing with a multi-staged trigger or three staggered triggers, that as you pulled the trigger, it would fire at each stage, or as you contacted each subsequent trigger in the case of the three triggers. Each trigger is one function of each trigger, and each stage of the single trigger is a single function of the trigger. If I can find the thread, I'll link to it.

Woody
 
^ Adding to CC's suggestion, perhaps modify the safety to interrupt two stages, so you could have the three-set and regular safe/semi? I imagine that a three-stage trigger like described would trigger the disconnector separately. One would not simply be able to yank the trigger, I imagine it would need a consistent pull, but the only consequence of one pulling the trigger too fast would be skipping a stage.

But then again, the ATF letter stated 'single action of the trigger'. Such a modification would allow triburst-like action with a single pull of the trigger, thus rendering it a MG.
 
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