I was curious on the legality of US citizens possessing various makes and models of firearms not normaly legal in the US while outside of the country.
Normaly I would have assumed outside the territory is outside the law, yet recent examples have shown the US is willing to prosecute crimes commited outside of the US jurisdiction.
We see this with the recent hunting prosecution of the billionaire that was hunting from a soviet aircraft while the government turned a blind eye.http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2007/07/stuff-i-didnt-k.html
We see it for a number of offense lately.
Related to weapons one such instance is: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Suspect...land;_suspects_plead_not_guilty_in_California
In this case they never technicaly possessed or owned the weapons in question while in US territory and would only have assumed ownership of them once in Thailand. Yet the ATF and other agencies arrested them in a sting.
I understand to some extent the political reasons for wanting to arrest them, and perhaps charges relating to intent abroad. However I want to focus strictly on the arms aspect and legality.
Considering distributors and dealers exist that can and do own post ban machine guns and sell to the market who can purchase them within the US, namely LEOs, as well as foreign markets, what is the legality of a US citizen purchasing them to be delivered to a foreign location, especialy if they are legal in said foreign destination? When the US citizen is within US territory. How about when the citizen is outside US territory for delivery to outside location?
Can a collector purchase and store such firearms outside US territory legaly if they never have possession or legal ownership within US territory? If so how do they go about not getting setup in a sting by the ATF and made to appear to be attempting to purchase and own them in the US even when that is not the case?
How about manufacter? Would it be legal for a US citizen to make a select fire trigger group while say on a private vessel in international waters, as long as they dump it over the side prior to entering other waters? Say someone on a yacht wanted to have select fire protection with a legal semi auto firearm while traveling the open seas, and was willing to discard the easy to make item prior to entering territorial waters.
Furthermore what is legal waters? Territorial waters are 12 miles out. Under UN law an additional 12 miles are part of the "contiguous zone" where smuggling laws can be enforced. Does that mean 12 miles is legal, but one could get arrested under the guise of "attempting to smuggle" type laws or does it mean it would only be legal 24 miles out? If one was to bring metal 24-25 miles off coast and manufacter a auto sear or similar device for personal ownership to be discarded before entering waters once more would that be legal? What US laws is a citizen still subject to while in such waters?
Personal opinions are welcome, but I am really hoping for some clear precise laws and links as to legality.
Furthermore I know of many instances where the US coast guard continues to enforce its rules much further out. Is this legal? Does the US just make up its own rules and the rest of the world lives by different ones? Please help me understand this.
Furthermore when possessing such firearms illegaly in other nations what jurisdiction does the US have over its citizens? Wouldn't Blackwater type orginizations be illegaly possessing such firearms in the jurisdictions of nations outside the US against the local laws? Many Places ban possession legaly, but do not enforce it and ownership is common throughout the third world. Can the US enforce these laws and prosecute a US citizen later for possession in other nations? Is it selective enforcement or is there clear legal guidelines?
Normaly I would have assumed outside the territory is outside the law, yet recent examples have shown the US is willing to prosecute crimes commited outside of the US jurisdiction.
We see this with the recent hunting prosecution of the billionaire that was hunting from a soviet aircraft while the government turned a blind eye.http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2007/07/stuff-i-didnt-k.html
We see it for a number of offense lately.
Related to weapons one such instance is: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Suspect...land;_suspects_plead_not_guilty_in_California
In this case they never technicaly possessed or owned the weapons in question while in US territory and would only have assumed ownership of them once in Thailand. Yet the ATF and other agencies arrested them in a sting.
I understand to some extent the political reasons for wanting to arrest them, and perhaps charges relating to intent abroad. However I want to focus strictly on the arms aspect and legality.
Considering distributors and dealers exist that can and do own post ban machine guns and sell to the market who can purchase them within the US, namely LEOs, as well as foreign markets, what is the legality of a US citizen purchasing them to be delivered to a foreign location, especialy if they are legal in said foreign destination? When the US citizen is within US territory. How about when the citizen is outside US territory for delivery to outside location?
Can a collector purchase and store such firearms outside US territory legaly if they never have possession or legal ownership within US territory? If so how do they go about not getting setup in a sting by the ATF and made to appear to be attempting to purchase and own them in the US even when that is not the case?
How about manufacter? Would it be legal for a US citizen to make a select fire trigger group while say on a private vessel in international waters, as long as they dump it over the side prior to entering other waters? Say someone on a yacht wanted to have select fire protection with a legal semi auto firearm while traveling the open seas, and was willing to discard the easy to make item prior to entering territorial waters.
Furthermore what is legal waters? Territorial waters are 12 miles out. Under UN law an additional 12 miles are part of the "contiguous zone" where smuggling laws can be enforced. Does that mean 12 miles is legal, but one could get arrested under the guise of "attempting to smuggle" type laws or does it mean it would only be legal 24 miles out? If one was to bring metal 24-25 miles off coast and manufacter a auto sear or similar device for personal ownership to be discarded before entering waters once more would that be legal? What US laws is a citizen still subject to while in such waters?
Personal opinions are welcome, but I am really hoping for some clear precise laws and links as to legality.
Furthermore I know of many instances where the US coast guard continues to enforce its rules much further out. Is this legal? Does the US just make up its own rules and the rest of the world lives by different ones? Please help me understand this.
Furthermore when possessing such firearms illegaly in other nations what jurisdiction does the US have over its citizens? Wouldn't Blackwater type orginizations be illegaly possessing such firearms in the jurisdictions of nations outside the US against the local laws? Many Places ban possession legaly, but do not enforce it and ownership is common throughout the third world. Can the US enforce these laws and prosecute a US citizen later for possession in other nations? Is it selective enforcement or is there clear legal guidelines?