Legality of 12 Gauge Boundry Security System

[fireman 9731]

First off, I don't plan on buying any of these.... yet
So are they legal with just blanks? I couldn't imagine using them with real ammo could be legal. Could you get constructive possession if you put a regular round in it?

12 Gauge Boundry Security System
This particular device, when used outdoors, serves as an effective pest control and early warning signal against intruders on your property. This system is all aluminum construction that can be used over and over again. Designed to accommodate 12 gauge blanks. Kit contains all the necessary hardware to install where required (tree, fence, post, etc). Includes one 12 gauge blank cartridge.

 

[mp510]

There was somebody in my area that rigged those or something similar up around their property (with blanks). When a utility worker set it off, the guy was charged with reckless endangerment 2d. That charge never ended up playing out in court, because in the premisis search that followed uncovered unregistered NFA items-- which the feds took interest in.

 

[zombienerd]

When a utility worker set it off, the guy was charged with reckless endangerment 2d.

If it's private property, and had been properly posted, then I don't see how the worker had a leg to stand on.

I've often wondered about the legality of "Sentry Guns"... Tripwire fired weapons, etc...

Not that I'd ever use them, but it makes me wonder.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Can't cite it, but I recall a case where a BG was maimed by one of these, and successfully sued the LAC who placed it....

The real problem, IMHO, is that folks like LEO's or Fire sometimes have to enter a building, and the "trap" doesn't know who's making entry. I would sleep fairly soundly if I ruined Thaddeus T. Thief's day, but Officer Friendly is another matter....

Regards,

 

[Diggers]

These laws will vary from state to state. Although its safe to say in most states people CAN NOT legally use such devices.

Here in CA if some one enters private property the owner can ask them to leave, if they don't leave THEN they are tresspassing and can be charged with that crime.

One does not get to set traps for people.

If it's private property, and had been properly posted, then I don't see how the worker had a leg to stand on.

It's probably due to the fact that utilities tend to run into peoples homes so its their job to go there.

 

[stootchmaster]

Well. . .maybe not a shotgun trap, but what about a few well-hidden bear traps/trip flares? You would think that they would be a quite humane way to deal with trespassers. Once the bear trap had them held in place, one could use their tazer to subdue them until the police arrived to properly serve a trespassing warrant.

Of course, the land would need to be properly posted, and utility companies could always be notified that they must make an appointment to come on to your property.

Are there any laws against bear trap/trip flare/tazer home protection strategies?

Amen

 

[stootchmaster]

What could make more sense than to trap a trespasser in the yard before s/he has the opportunity to enter the home and endanger those within?

Just trying to think outside the box on non-lethal home-protection methods.
It is, after all, against the laws of Jehova to kill unless commanded to do so by Him.

Then again. I'm a preacher and not a lawyer or law-enforcement officer, so my knowledge is a bit lacking. Sorry I made you go Google that cool picture of Admiral Akbar so you could put me in my place.

Amen

 

[lpd843]

Quote:

"If it's private property, and had been properly posted, then I don't see how the worker had a leg to stand on."

believe it or not meter readers and other public works employees or agents actually have an "easement" so to say to inspect their equipment and the service they provide on your property as long as you have the services on your property

 

[Colonel]

Without a barrel (or chamber) to support the sides of the case when the powder ignites and gases expand, even if you used a loaded shotshell, not much would happen beyond a few feet. Since the shot charge is far heavier than the plastic case, the shot charge wouldn't move much if at all. Yes, you'd get a "BANG" and some shredded plastic and brass and sparks would fly around, but that would be about it.

Besides it being IMO a stupid and reckless idea to use such a thing with real ammunition (even if it would actually send a projectile anywhere, which this one won't judging from the illustration), string guns are pretty much illegal everywhere. Anyone with half a brain can figure out why.

If you just want to rig a trip wire to a noisemaker, how about a bell?

And when did THR get overrun by teenybombers, anyway?

 

[DeepSouth]

Without a barrel (or chamber) to support the sides of the case when the powder ignites and gases expand, even if you used a loaded shotshell, not much would happen beyond a few feet. Since the shot charge is far heavier than the plastic case, the shot charge wouldn't move much if at all. Yes, you'd get a "BANG" and some shredded plastic and brass and sparks would fly around, but that would be about it.

This is my line of thinking as well, just a loud pow, with little damage potential beyond 5 ft, Now if you slide a piece of 3/4 galv. pipe over it?????????????

But the Legality of the matter, maybe SBS. I'm betting it want come out good.

I certainly wouldn't use, or even buy one.

 

[bdickens]

Stuff like that is specifically illegal in Texas.

Besides, how would you feel if some kid looking for his puppy got caught in the bear trap? Or the puppy itself? Or if the claymore took out some single mother with a young child who had run out of gas?

Like others have mentioned, there are all kinds of perfectly legitimate reasons why someone could be on your property without your authorization.

Have some damn sense.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

In Kentucky, lethal force booby traps for self defense are illegal.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...y+trap&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

 

[chuckusaret]

I have a friend that has had his property posted and also surrounded with an electric fence for many years, no stray people on his property.

 

[wishin]

Fireman 9731

Please post a link to where I can get this contraption. We have a Canadian Goose problem here at the lake, that could possibly be minimized with such a device to scare them away. I wouldn't mind it, but for the fact that their droppings are a nuisance when fishing from the sea wall.(or mowing the lawn). Before someone else says it, let me add that you can only eat so much goose!

 

[Blackbeard]

But the Legality of the matter, maybe SBS.

SBS? How about NBS? In fact without a barrel I don't think it even qualifies as a "gun".

Back to the OP: Don't know about legality but it is seriously stupid to install one of these devices. Suppose some kid wanders through playing hide-n-seek and sets it off. Suppose one of the pellets finds its way into her eye? Besides making you feel guilt-ridden for the rest of your life knowing you blinded a 6-year-old, it's a slam-dunk lawsuit for the family. "My property was properly posted" isn't going to fly in court and it won't restore anyone's sight.

 

[leadcounsel]

Another vote for a very bad idea. As others mentioned, booby traps and string guns are about as illegal as you can get.

In law school we studied a few cases of string guns and it NEVER came out good for the owner of the string gun. We're talking fines and/or prison.

With this devise, it may be completely harmless, but imagine the 'tresspasser' is a 14 year old boy, who is startled and flees and runs from it into traffic and causes and accident and people die... In any case, at best, someone is going to report that you were firing a shotgun at them. Worse case is anything really bad that you can imagine.

You'd be better off installing a siren or bell or alarm device that doesn't use weaponry (even blanks).

 

[jobu07]

I think i've head of these called "man-traps" before. I'm fairly certain that they fall into a booby-trap or man-trap catergory and are illegal to put into use in most states.

Besides, remember that obstacles are useless without overwatch.

 

[Art Eatman]

Any warning device which could harm a person is illegal. There have been civil suits about this, held in favor of the person who was harmed.

A tripwire-actuated device which has the blank cartridge pointed at a wall or the ground would not be harmful. A meter-reader (or anybody else) would not be endangered--unless the tripwire itself were strong enough to trip a person.

 

[545days]

There are lots of perfectly legal ways to harm a third party and wind up in a civil suit. This may be one of them.

I am not a lawyer. I don't pretend to be a lawyer. I don't want to be a lawyer. Don't confuse my opinion with legal advice.

 

[fireman 9731]

Please post a link to where I can get this contraption.

Scroll all the way down to the end of the page

http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/12gaugeammo.html


And just to let everyone know, the way my property is set up, there is one way in, and one way out. In my situation I think they could be set up in places that only could catch someone up to no good. I also think they could be set up to ward off trespassing 4-wheelers quite effectively.

 

[wishin]

Thanks. BTW, I found 12 GA Blanks for a lot less here: http://www.gunblanks.com/ammo.html

 

[Speedo66]

I recall a case in a midwestern state where a farmhouse had been repeatedly burglarized. The farmer set up a booby trap with live ammo, which wound up shooting the burglar.

Burglar sued, won, wound up owning the farm. The concept was the punishment (damage) exceeded the severity of the crime. The award was greater than the farmers assets, and he had to turn over his property.

Not urban legend, for real.

I've seen booby traps made from items as simple as mouse traps and pipe nipples.

The bottom line: don't do it.

 

[hatchetbearer]

in my early teens, me and a friend, not particularly knowing better stumbled upon an old abandoned hunting camp in the woods. we opened the door to discover it was rigged with a rube goldberg device made of mousetraps and shotgun primers, scattered all over the floor in a comical hollywood fashion. each one set off the other and it ended up knocking some stuff off a table setting one of these off. except it did have pipe over it and used a live shotgun shell. fortunately, 20 years of ohio weather swelled the paper shell and ruined the gunpowder inside. never went "exploring" again.

 

[divemedic]

Keep in mind:

1 Most states make it illegal to use force to protect property. Setting up such a booby trap, that will fire whether the homeowner is home or not, is hardly self defense.

2 How would you feel if a small child wandered onto your property and was hurt or killed by such a device?

3 This device, especially if loaded with a shotshell, may very well fit one of the definitions of 18 USC 921:

(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

(4) The term “destructive device” means—
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas—
(i) bomb,
(ii) grenade,
(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,
(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(v) mine, or
(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;
(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and
(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

 

[danbrew]

in my early teens, me and a friend, not particularly knowing better stumbled upon an old abandoned hunting camp in the woods. we opened the door to discover it was rigged with a rube goldberg device made of mousetraps and shotgun primers, scattered all over the floor in a comical hollywood fashion. each one set off the other and it ended up knocking some stuff off a table setting one of these off. except it did have pipe over it and used a live shotgun shell. fortunately, 20 years of ohio weather swelled the paper shell and ruined the gunpowder inside. never went "exploring" again.

I'm pretty sure the hunting camp would have had a terrible accidental fire as a result of the mantrap had I stumbled across it. Oh, the horror...