Legality of altering bullets

[NoirFan]

Hello,

I recently read a feedback comment on www.midwayusa.com, regarding their .38 special lead hollowpoint. The poster claimed that expansion could be greatly improved by using a small screwdriver to widen the hollow point cavity. My question is: would there be any legal consequences if this "tampered" bullet was used to shoot an attacker in self-defense?

I have vague memories of laws against "dum-dum" bullets but I am not sure if this is the same thing.

Thanks,

 

[LB7_Driver]

A few states have laws against hollow-point bullets unless you are a LEO.

Altering a bullet for better expansion? Unless you're absolutely desperate, buy a better bullet.
Doing for self-defense purposes? I'd have to be really, REALLY desperate!

I don't think there are any LEGAL reasons not to, unless HPs are already illegal in your area.

 

[Jdude]

If you do it wrong, you might expand the bullet in a way that causes damage to the barrel.

If something is important enough to shoot once with a modified bullet, just shoot it twice with regular bullets. Or twenty times.

 

[Ol` Joe]

There is a whole industry out there that is dedicated to making self defence ammo. Buy properly designed ammo and you won`t have to worry if it will behave as you want it to, or is or isn`t leagal.

Altering a bullet likely won`t cause any harm but, you have no way of knowing if it altered the caractoristics in the way you intended. The ammo makers spend big $$$ testing and dsigning their bullets to do as they intend, everytime, not just "most of the time".

 

[Funderb]

if that were illegal that logically, so would making your own bullets.



sorry,

no it's not illegal.

 

[jdorian]

Seriously, if the factory ammo is not up to your needs, you need to find another brand or product line. Most brands have more than one product line, often an economy line, midrange, and premium line. If for personal defense, its worth the extra few cents to get the better stuff.

 

[Ltlabner]

illegal...likely not.

Open you up to liablity...possibly.

Useless and a waste of time....definatley.

 

[aryfrosty]

As noted by another person hollowpoints are intrinsically illegal in New Jersey and possibly in other areas, as well. If they are legal where you carry you can bronze plate 'em and put little diamonds in the cavity...
However, If you carry for self defense or where you might have to defend yourself read all you can find on the idea of preparing for self defense use and carry. Massad Ayoob is my favorite author on the subject because I was a street level cop in the deep south for 25 years. Like the cowboy said, "he resonates in my mind..." I recall Officer Luis Alvarez in south Florida...He shot an arrestee with a dirty gun...He had Rogers fingergroove grips on his M-10 and also he had taken two coils off the rebound spring to lighten the action AND he thumb-cocked it before tangling with the dipstick he shot. Bad choices according to the prosecution. He was treated as a "gunfighter" who was looking to kill someone. Ayoob has written of preparing to use your gun when you choose the gun, the holster, modifications you shouldn't do and the ammo you buy. The ammo guys get it. You can now buy beaucoup ammo with "personal protection", "self-defense" and other marks which tend to establish that you are NOT a gunfighter but only a citizen carrying to PROTECT oneself. Same as never setting out to shoot to "kill" or "wound" an adversary. You shoot to stop the threat. Period. I believe in those ideas completely. The same DA you work WITH every week will hunt you down and murder your career out of some moronic idea of "justice".

I'm not an attorney...I am not offering legal advice, but only my personal opinions. I have been involved in 2 shootings in the 25 years I worked and was found to be blameless in both because I work and train to my skill levels and training and policies within both law and common sense. Al

 

[Jim K]

I pretty much agree with Al. A lot of folks say that if the shooting is "clean", the gun or ammo won't be questioned. That may be true as far as criminal charges go, but in a wrongful death civil suit, anything goes.

The attorney for the plaintiffs (the dirt bag's survivors, who know exactly what kind of scum he was but hope to get a couple of million out of you) will use every trick in the book against you. Why were you there? Were you "out hunting" in that neighborhood? Why were you armed? Why did you have that super powerful .25 (or .38 or 9mm or .45, etc.) that will destroy whole buildings? Why didn't you just walk away? Why did you make up murderous bullets intended only to kill innocent people? And on and on.

Remember the jury doesn't know diddly about guns except that gang bangers and drug dealers use them. So a little thinking ahead won't hurt.

Jim

 

[The Bushmaster]

We have "SPAM"

Redesign a perfectly good bullet? Waste of my time. I have better things to do with my time. I let the bullet manufacturers tinker with their bullets. They have the proper equipment to do it properly. I don't...

 

[rufus1]

As noted by another person hollowpoints are intrinsically illegal in New Jersey and possibly in other areas

Not to steat the thread, but in the last 2 days I read this phrase 3 times.

HOLLOWPOINT BULLETS ARE NOT ILLEGAL IN NJ.
There is a law on the books that is aimed at anyone commiting a crime. In a nutshell, it says that it is illegal to use them while commiting a crime. That was put there to add yet another charge to any wepons charge if they(hollowpoints) are found. You can buy them in NJ or online, sell them, use them at the range but if you use or have them on your person while being arested, it is another charge added to your name. That means you CAN have them in a box in the car, but you cannot have them loaded in a mag. You can have them in your self defense gun in the house, but will be charged if you shoot an intruder with them. Stupid law? YES, but they are still legal to buy, own and use at the range.

 

[MCgunner]

I prefer purpose bullets for self defense. I do handload my defensive ammo, but I use premium defense bullets loaded to proper velocities for optimum expansion. I cast bullets for every handgun and a couple of rifles that I own, but they're all used either for range or hunting where expansion isn't necessary OR desireable in order to gain penetration. I don't bet my life on a cast bullet from MY molds. LOL! They're all very accurate and some of 'em have taken game, but I want a designed and manufactured purpose built bullet from a major maker for self defense. I like Horandy XTP in my 9, Speer 200 grain gold dot in my .45, Speer 140 JHP in my .357s and .38.

 

[pbearperry]

Too bad Dum Dum politicians are not illegal.

 

[NoirFan]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. To be clear, the comment on Midway was talking about improved performance on small game I believe, not self-defense against humans. I just extrapolated the question.

 

[the naked prophet]

Here is an excellent article on the subject of .38 special lead hollowpoints:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38 Special 158gr LSWCHP.htm


Based on this advice, I carry the 158 +P Remington load in my snub nose.

 

[BReilley]

In a country where using 10mm rather than a lesser round or HP ammunition rather than ball can be used to make you look bloodthirsty(etc) in the eyes of a juror, I will be VERY careful in considering any modifications to my weapons, particularly ammunition. I don't believe I will ever use handloaded, reloaded, or "super" ammunition in a carry weapon. Such will not likely tip the balance in an actual gunfight, and it's not worth the legal risks IMO.

The other side of this argument is that some people, for instance competitive shooters, would probably have an easier time explaining handloads and such.

It sucks that things are this way, but you kinda have to think of the worst case... as if having to defend yourself against a criminal attacker isn't bad enough, you may have to defend yourself before a jury of your "peers" too

Reference for my concerns(namely the 10mm/HP bits):
http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/