Legality of Felons & guns in the military

[Flyboy]

I'd be willing to bet that there are waaay more felons ( that haven't been caught yet) wearing blue

Funny enough, I read that as blue suits--IBM in particular is famous for 'em--and meaning white-collar "felonies," rather than legitimate, violent-crime actions.

For those who didn't catch my meaning, let me state it thus: if you can't be lawfully shot in the act of committing it, it ain't properly a felony.

 

[Flyboy]

I wonder why we have a sex offender database?

Because:
A) it allows the government to marginalize yet another group of citizens, and
B) it's the latest boogeyman (created by said government) to scare citizens into thinking the government is to the solution to their problems.

 

[TAB]

Because:
A) it allows the government to marginalize yet another group of citizens, and
B) it's the latest boogeyman (created by said government) to scare citizens into thinking the government is to the solution to their problems.

so it has nothing to do with the fact that most sex offenders will repeat thier crimes? Tell me, would you want to know if the guy down the street is a child molster? I know I would.

 

[KD5NRH]

For those who didn't catch my meaning, let me state it thus: if you can't be lawfully shot in the act of committing it, it ain't properly a felony.

Man, I wish they used that criteria the other way around - either other way, for that matter; if you can be shot for it it's a felony, or if it's a felony you can be shot for it. Either would reduce certain crimes here in TX.

 

[dalepres]

For those who didn't catch my meaning, let me state it thus: if you can't be lawfully shot in the act of committing it, it ain't properly a felony.

Those felonies where you can be shot while committing them would be known as violent felonies.

 

[Flyboy]

TAB:

Read Jacob Sullum's article "Registration Required" over at reason:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/35898.html

The Bush administration—which filed a brief in defense of Connecticut's registration law, the other statute the Supreme Court will consider—is a bit more cautious. "When they reenter society at large," says Solicitor General Theodore Olson, "convicted sex offenders have a much higher recidivism rate for their offense of conviction than any other type of violent felon."

The brief cites data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which show that rapists are more likely to be rearrested for rape than other offenders are. But that does not mean they are more likely to be rearrested.

Among prisoners released in 1994, 46 percent of rapists were arrested again for any offense within three years, compared to 62 percent of violent felons generally. Recidivism rates for nonviolent criminals were even higher: 79 percent for car thieves, 74 percent for burglars.

Even if we focus on repeats of the same offense, rapists do not stand out [emphasis mine]. Less than 3 percent of them were arrested for a new rape in the three years covered by the study. By comparison, 13 percent of robbers, 22 percent of (nonsexual) assaulters, and 23 percent of burglars were arrested again for crimes similar to the ones for which they had served time.

I swear, one of these days, I'll post this enough that everybody will have read it.

 

[punchdrunk]

(B) the transportation of any such firearm or ammunition carried out to enable a person, who lawfully received such firearm or ammunition from the Secretary of the Army, to engage in military training or in competitions.

 

[gripper]

What can I say...this used to be a free country...

 

[LAR-15]

OT:

They must be one of those folks who think child rapists should get a slap on the wrist

 

[Sans Authoritas]

jaholder1971 wrote:
Quote:
Personally I don't see why a felon who has finished their sentence and "paid their debt to society" should be denied their 2A rights. If they are safe enough to trust back out in society where they can easily get a weapon regardless of the laws... then they are safe enough to trust to legally own a weapon...if they are a likely menace to use law-abiding types then they should still be locked up

jaholder1971 wrote:

Why do have to beat this to death all the time?

It's been long established, 40 years now, that you commit a felony crime you lose RKBA. Don't like it, don't be a criminal!

A lot of folks like to believe the above quote but fewer are willing to have a felon recently released from prison live with them.

Jaholder, note the words in bold. The point is, nobody wants these violent felons released. Period.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[Flyboy]

jaholder1971:

I am hardly an apologist. In fact, Sans Authoritas has nailed it quite cleanly: if they're freemen, they ought to be treated as such, and if they can't be trusted as freemen, they ought not be out of jail.

That said, the article I posted was in no way apologizing for any sort of sex offender, but rather pointing out a factual error to which many people erroneously cling. Please read it; you may find it it enlightening to your worldview.

You might also want to keep in mind that "sex offender" is not synonymous with "child rapist." In fact, while certain elements of our political discourse actively try to conflate the two to play up your emotional response, the truth of the matter is that "sex offender" is growing to encompass an ever-widening scope of behaviour, much of it entirely victimless.

 

[blackcash88]

I don't know anyone that has not commited a felony.

Let me say that again.

I don't know anyone that has not commited a felony.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who haven't committed a felony. I'm not one of them but, honestly, looking back over my life, the only felony I can recall potentially being pegged for was carrying a firearm concealed in places I wasn't allowed to and that was a LONG time ago. This was before I got my first CCW permit. I've never stolen anything, murdered anyone, raped anyone, held up a bank, stolen a car, etc...

 

[romma]

It is Ironic, Here is your fully automatic machine gun, now go kill some people..

Uh, time to go home now soldier, Oh, you are not allowed to own firearms because you cannot be trusted btw...

 

[rampage841512]

Personally I don't see why a felon who has finished their sentence and "paid their debt to society" should be denied their 2A rights.

Part of the debt they pay to society is losing the ability to exercise that right within society.

 

[Flyboy]

Part of the debt they pay to society is losing the ability to exercise that right within society.

Not much of a right, then, is it?

Or do you think we ought to take away their right to choose their own churches? Maybe quarter troops in their homes? That'd keep them on the straight-and-narrow, and save tax dollars to boot!

 

[zxcvbob]

Up to, not exceeding, one year.

Please, you're going to have to dump a ton of dirty diapers on the lawn of the Mayor before you get that penalty. Sheesh!

You missed the point. The current definition of a felony is “a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year”. If a jail term longer than a year could have been sentenced, they're calling it a felony; doesn't matter that you were only fined $50 for that gum wrapper.

 

[Robert Hairless]

After some hesitation, the rules governing the enlistment of persons with criminal records were relaxed, and thousands of ex-felons joined combat units. Evidence showed that soldiers paroled from prison into the armed forces, as well as soldiers with felony records, were no more likely to be dishonorably discharged than other soldiers. . . . the service and dedication of former inmates to the war effort strongly demonstrated the potential for reformation.

The above is from The History of the Correctional Association of New York and is about World War II, when ex-felons did serve in the U.S. military and acquitted themselves as well as other soldiers.

The concept of "ex-felon" seems to be unknown today.

In all fairness, the concept of George W. Bush was unknown then, even though there's no question in the minds of truly sophisticated people that he is the source of all problems in the universe.

But the concept of "scapegoat" has been known, and used, for generations and thrives today. It makes us feel good, lends us unearned superiority, and doesn't require any real thought.

 

[LWGN]

Felons who have served their time are, in many states, eligible to petition for the restoration of their civil rights, including the RKBA. In some states, these rights are automatically restored. In Florida, there is a board which hears rights restoration petitions (it is backlogged, no surprise there).

Former felons who have completed restoration of rights can even get CCW permits under certain circumstances.

Why shouldn't people who are eligible for restoration of rights not be allowed to serve in the military?

 

[steppenwolf]

Bettering the Belittled

I am all for the protection of women and children. I also believe that laws do step too far over the lines in labeling people for life. I have a friend that had consensual sex with his girlfriend that was seventeen and she cried rape but later changed her mind and told the truth to her parents. Thankfully, they apologized to the boy although they were still angry they had sex.

I have seen so much sex in highschool, college, and in life it is a wonder that the word virgin still exists at all. I teach my children what sex is, why God gave us the wonderful gift, and the why it should and should not be used. I am honest with them at appropriate levels during their developmental stages. I am preparing them to make informed decisions. I love them.

I do believe that violent offenders should lose their rights to guns but not necessarily for life. I have worked with felons of Class C and D and believe that many of them have no right near a gun due to stupidity and ignorance. Gun ownership is not something that should be dictated to the people by anyone unless a person has proven that having a gun would be dangerous.

We must ban together as men and teach the generations the fun, the sport, and the safety of guns. We must educate peacefully everywhere we can. Never yell or shout as it makes you look scary (that is how they will see you). Be calm, be in control, and be patient. Cast your votes. Write to your leaders afer someone has proof-read your work.

Show respect, dignity, authority, and leadership in all that you do. They will be watching and your fruits will tell what kind of tree (idiot or leader) you are concerning you and your guns.

 

[jaholder1971]

Like the idiot no-guns-for-white-collar felons, the "sex offender" crapola has also gone too far. Get caught peeing in public at 18?,... sex offender for life. An 18 year old have sex with his/her 17 +364 day old partner?.... sex offender for life.

I have no problems labeling someone a sex offender for life for rape, child molestation, etc. Sex laws that cannot differentiate between truly horrendous crimes and mere stupidity need an apology.

PUH-LEASE!!!!

Once more (with feeling):

You don't become a felon by accident. White collar criminals and those who have sex with the underaged know exactly what they're doing and know it's a felony. The old quote "15 will get you twenty" wasn't describing terms for a loan, friends.

For 40 years now, it's been established that you commit a felony, you lose RKBA. They commited crimes for which the consequences were plain and obvious. DEAL WITH IT!!!

 

[jrfoxx]

jaholder1971-
keep that in mind if you're ever out in a national forest, in the middle of nowhere hiking, hunting, camping, etc, need to take a whiz, and someone sees you. You just "urinated in public", knowingly, and could easily become a sex offender for life, and a felon. That a far cry from sex, even consentual, between a 20 year old, and a 15 year old, or 40 year old and 10 year old. The point is, the law is too braod, vague, and abused, and there ARE valid distinctions to be made, that sometimes aren't.

 

[Vibe]

Once more (with feeling):

You don't become a felon by accident.

Sorry buddy. But that is simply no longer true. You can become a "felon" just because you ticked off the wrong cop anymore. There are all sorts of people serving 5 to 15 for misdemeanors anymore, at the judges discretion . Anything over a year makes it a felony. And the SCOTUS has upheld the practice.

 

[Art Eatman]

This has wandered too far off from the topic...