LEO Weirdness re: spouse applying for CCW

[30 cal slob]

Well,

After many years of trying, I finally got my wife to apply for a resident CCW in our home state (in the liberal northeast), and a Utah non-resident permit.

I had to resort to bribery to get it done ( fellas, it works see below) but she got through the process of taking the required NRA safety course (twice, mind you), filling out the paperwork and getting fingerprinted by our local LEO.

Now, I've had a carry permit in my home state for over a decade. The chief in my town has signed off on numerous applications for out of state CCW (some restrictive states require this) and ATF paperwork for NFA goodies. So, in my view, he's pro-2A in a somewhat anti-2A state, even though it's pretty close to right-to-carry.

Today, the LEO's looked at my wife like she had three heads when she came in for fingerprinting.

First question they had for her was: "Why do you need a gun? Is everything okay at home? Is your husband abusing you?"

Then, I get a call from the detective who did the fingerprinting.

Occifer: "Sir, are you aware that your wife is applying for a pistol permit?"

Me: "Uh, yeah, I sent her in to get one."

Occifer: "Why?"

Me: "Uh, well, just in case anything happens to me ... I want her to be able to liquidate my gun collection if I die and she may need to use it for personal protection at home."

Now, I'm the one who pushed her to get her permit.

I have been advised that my PD is going to be doing some reference checks with my neighbors to see if there have been any "problems."

I'm sure my wife is thinking "***!!!" . right now.. which, quite frankly, is what I'm feeling.

Am I wrong to feel a little weirdly uncomfortable right now?

p.s.

Here is how I structured the incentives for the wifey:

1) Honey, I have a job for you. Fill out these applications. When you're done with them, I will give you $50.

2) Honey, we need to get this app. notarized. Here is $20 - it will cost $5. Keep the change when you are done.

3) Honey, the state of UT needs passport photos. Here is $20 - it will cost $10 for the photos. Keep the change when you are done.

4) Honey, I know this NRA course will be boring, but I will pay you $5 for each point you score over 90% on the written exam ... and I'll take you out to lunch afterwards. [she scored well over 90% on the test]

5) Honey, I will buy you a new pair of shoes when your pistol permits come in the mail in 60 days. But you have to get fingerprinted today, okay?

Okay, flame away....

 

[eastwood44mag]

That's the world we live in these days. Men are automatically evil. Sucks, don't it?

 

[atblis]

HaHa

I usually get in trouble when things like that happen to me. Cops don't like being laughed at for being silly.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

That my friend, is about the sorriest commentary on what the media in this country has done to the people.
If it wasn't true, it would be hilarious; instead, it is deeply disturbing.
:banghead:

 

[mpmarty]

My wife has a CCW and has had for many years. The LEOs are damn lucky they didn't use that approach on her. She would have replied with something like "no my husband is ok and I am too, we just want me to have a gun to protect myself from stupid *******s and rogue cops.

 

[30 cal slob]

Now, I'm not mad or anything at my local PD (they're a great bunch of folks), but I just feel a little weird, like I'm being judged or something like that.

 

[txgho1911]

For folks who honorably see everyone blind to color and only staring to enjoy our creators wonders.
I should keep this thread open so the Mrs can see some real chauvinism loose on women.
So when is Pax gonna show up to express her indignation?

 

[30 cal slob]

please pax, don't hit me. lol.

seriously, i think i will be writing a polite "heads-up" note to my neighbors ("wife is undergoing a background check") to let them know that the police will come-a-knocking.

 

[cheygriz]

Unfortunately, police are generally recruited form the local population, and share the cultural values and biases of the "average" citizen in the local population.

Where I live, the "average" cop would have yawned, taken the fingerprints, and gone back to reading the sports page. My neighbors would have reacted the same way.

In places like the east and west coasts, big cities, and the northeast, the "average" cop is a lot like the "average" citizen. He has no interest in guns or shooting, and wonders why the hell anyone else does.

A few years ago, I became neighbor to, and friends with, a couple that had recently moved out here from Massachusetts. He was an avid deer hunter, and asked me what he had to do to get his hunting rifle and shotgun licensed, so that his brother could bring them out to him when he came to visit.

His eyes got as big as saucers when I told him that he didn't need a license. I think he was actually a little uset when I told him that he could buy even an EVIL handgun without a license, and get a permit to carry it concealed.

He asked me "what on God's earth would any honest person need a damned pistol for??":banghead:

If this man, a good, honest, well educated, and decent, hard working man had become a LEO, he would have brought those same cultural biases to that job.

It's a damn shame, but that's human nature, and cops are human.

 

[pax]

txgho 1911 ~

http://www.ifeminists.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.12 and http://www.ifeminists.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.32 -- that's pretty well my core belief on this kind of thing. If that offends you, I dunno what else to say.

30 cal slob ~

That's outrageous. It really is.

Once your wife has obtained her CCW (not until then!), I would suggest writing a letter to the top cop and expressing your dissatisfaction with the whole process. Maybe send one to the local paper, too, complaining about the double standard. It won't do a bit of good, but might make you feel better.

Sad to say, you will probably get a bit further if you complain about it based upon it being sexist against her than about it being sexist against you. (Yes, yes, I know! But hear me out ...) After all, the increased level of scrutiny is "based upon the notion that a woman can't or won't complain for herself when something is wrong at home" and "it's paternal" and "assumes the poor-helpless-female pattern of behavior" and -- oh, you can probably come up with all the catch phrases for yourself, if you were creative about it. It is a bit condescending, if you think about it. Of course, that's not where the problem lies. The real problem is that the anti-male sexism, and in today's climate there just isn't a lot you're going to be able to do about that. You might get somewhere if you point out that it's condescending against her, though.

The whole thing is wrong. That's all. Just wrong.

pax

 

[RioShooter]

Unfortunately, police are generally recruited form the local population, and share the cultural values and biases of the "average" citizen in the local population.

Very perceptive observation. Posts like this is the reason I spend so much time on THR. It's one of the best places to go to for a continuing education.

 

[Glenn Kelley]

When the original possession and aquisition licences(PAL).
came out here they required that you have 3 references one of which had to be your spouse.

cop:ma'am are you ok with your husband having this licence?

wife:Guess I better be.
Cop;Why do you say that ?
Wife:He OKed mine.

That position was modified to the Spouse being an option and now the spouse is excluded.They finally realized that if you beat your spouse you'll beat them to get them to agree to a PAL.

 

[mp510]

That position was modified to the Spouse being an option and now the spouse is excluded.They finally realized that if you beat your spouse you'll beat them to get them to agree to a PAL.

Don't they still require you to give them the contact info on your current (and/or recent) spouse or intimate partner?

 

[CNYCacher]

For folks who honorably see everyone blind to color and only staring to enjoy our creators wonders.
I should keep this thread open so the Mrs can see some real chauvinism loose on women.
So when is Pax gonna show up to express her indignation?

Are you referring to the police department's response to her application, the way 30cal bribed her to get it, or both?

 

[30 cal slob]

pax,

thanks for your comments. like i said, i don't feel angry, but a little weird.

maybe i could have managed the process better by taking my wife into the pd, but i was at work.

there are some mixed feelings on confronting the chief in the town about the whole process - i don't want to tick him off because i'll still need CLEO signatures from him for any NFA items i might want to acquire in the future (he DOES sign off on these!).

i had a chance to talk with my wife about this over dinner. she mentioned to me that our p.d. might be acting the way it is b/c there ARE many cases of domestic abuse in our otherwise quiet new england town.

did i mention that before she gets her permit, my wife will have one last personal interview with the chief? (required of all applicants.)

 

[DMK]

I have to agree with Pax. That is just insulting to both males and females.

1) Automatically the assumption that a man must be beating his wife or worse. (ie. men are just evil given the chance)

2) Automatically the assumption that the only reason a woman would want a handgun is because she's in some kind of desperate situation and it's probably a subtle cry for help.

 

[Jacka L Ope]

i don't feel angry, but a little weird.

Nobody should ever feel "weird" about standing up for their rights much less what is right.

 

[hillbilly in MI]

My girlfriend agreed to go through the class and get her CCW this spring with me. She hadn't been around guns much before and had never handled one before mine. She still doesn't particularly care for them.
I presented the CCW issue like this:
1. Most of your apprehension of firearms is from unfamiliarity.
2. Accidents are most likely to happen when when someone without proper training handles a gun in an unsafe manner.
3. Since I will always have them around, she should know how to safely handle them.
4. What better way to learn how to handle a gun safely than by taking a class meant to prepare citizens to carry a gun in public.
5. Once licensed, she would be able to carry a handgun whenever (or if ever) she felt the need to (and of course that I wouldn't pressure her to carry - that will be her decision).

I believe that she's going to really enjoy shooting, whether she carries for defense or just sticks with target shooting because of her intensely competitive nature. No matter whether she ever wants to shoot or carry a gun again at least I know she will know how to be safe around the ones I have at home and if she ever had the need to defend herself she would have at least a basic level of ability.

 

[Glenn Kelley]

MP510,
They ask for it if you are within one year of a separation.I didn't see it on the last application that I looked at.I was asked to be a character reference on my daughters boyfriends application.I'll have a good look if he brings it out this week.

 

[twency]

My wife and I applied for our PA Licenses to Carry Firearms (before moving out of PA) together in person, so I think it was probably pretty obvious there wasn't any conflict between us precipitating the applications.

As far as "just making sure" though, I recall when I was in middle school and I broke my arm while running around outside after church on a Sunday night (slipped on snow while trying to run in dress shoes). My parents, who were nicely dressed, took me (also dressed in my "sunday best") to the ER.

I lost count of the number of times I was asked to repeat exactly how I broke my arm. First in my parents' presence, then repeatedly while alone during x-rays and examinations. Everybody seemed convinced that I was a clear case of child abuse. The fact that it happened in a public place (outside church, with other kids running around with me) didn't seem to make any difference.

I recall being distinctly upset at having to tell everyone again and again that no, my parents weren't around when it happened, yes, I fell "this way" on the arm, etc. No one seemed to want to accept what I was telling them. It may have just been hyper-caution, but I've sometimes wondered if there was an element of religious prejudice behind the sheer number of times I had to repeat my story. (Fundamentalist Christians all beat their kids, right?)

-twency

 

[Titan6]

Shoot, the wife asked this week what she needs to do to carry.

I will be going away for a while soon and she was thinking now would be a good time. I have been trying for years to get her to go and get one but she never felt the need.

I have been away many times but this will be the first time I will be away for any period of time since we had kids and I think the kids triggered it. I think women need some kind of trigger to get one even though they are much more likely to be targeted as a victim. They just see things differently than men.

The police were just doing what they do; being nosy. Worrying about everyone even when they don't need to. When you see crap every day your of your whole life everything starts looking like crap. You start looking for evidence to support hasty conclusions.

 

[cheygriz]

The police were just doing what they do; being nosy. Worrying about everyone even when they don't need to. When you see crap every day your of your whole life everything starts looking like crap. You start looking for evidence to support hasty conclusions.

Good observation. As a veteran of 22 years of law enforcement, I can tell you that you get paid to be nosy. The question that you DIDN'T ask, the item that you DIDN'T investigate, is ususaly the thing that gets some innocent person killed.

That kind of carelessness is not something that you want to live with every day for the rest of your life.

 

[sctman800]

About a year and a half ago my wife managed to stick her foot under the mower while cutting grass. Not real bad, broken toe and one cut toenail, could have been a lot worse. Any way one thing she was asked a couple times at the ER was "do you feel safe at home?" I guess they thought I hit her with the lawnmower. Jim.

 

[jeep-2]

it sounds like they're already trying to make a case against you, lucky thing you're in America where you're guilty until proven innocent. Hope that you're not on any of your neighbors black list.

yrs ago one my daughters was riding a trike, fell and cut her head on the range so we took her to the EM just to be safe. when we got home there was a deputy waiting to make out a report.

 

[Thain]

Hey, my Women's Studies minor pays off:

"Why do you need a gun?"

"To protect myself and my husband."

"Is everything okay at home?"

"Yeah, if that lazy husband of mine has dinner ready when I get back eveything'll be just fine."

Meanwhile....

"Sir, are you aware that your wife is applying for a pistol permit?"

"Oh, yes officer. My wife is worried about the safety of me and the kids."

"Umm.."

"I'm glad I have a woman around to protect me."