Let the AK go for an AR?
- Thread starter FNP45
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gotboostvr
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I own and like both, but use them differently.
My AK was built on a polish underfolder kit and has a Aimpoint knock off on the Midwest quad rail, I love blasting cans and cardboard boxes with it in the woods. I may have even hoisted it up and yelled Wolverines once or twice (which is really hard to admit as a Buckeye)
My AR is a BCM SS410 A2 stock, A2 iron sights. I shoot steel plates to 400 yards with it. It's considerably more precise. When practicing reloads (which I do with the AK as well) or any other manipulation drill, going from the AK to the AR I feel like The Flash, everything is just faster and more intuitive. The AR platform is just fast.
I've never had a malf in either rifle so I consider that irrelevant. If you have a modern AR that malfs once in awhile, something is broken or mistuned. Figure it out and fix it.
For a interesting story about AR's running dirty do a quick Google search for "Filthy 14"
Short version: BCM carbine that's never been cleaned, or jammed. Past 30k rounds now I believe.
My AK was built on a polish underfolder kit and has a Aimpoint knock off on the Midwest quad rail, I love blasting cans and cardboard boxes with it in the woods. I may have even hoisted it up and yelled Wolverines once or twice (which is really hard to admit as a Buckeye)
My AR is a BCM SS410 A2 stock, A2 iron sights. I shoot steel plates to 400 yards with it. It's considerably more precise. When practicing reloads (which I do with the AK as well) or any other manipulation drill, going from the AK to the AR I feel like The Flash, everything is just faster and more intuitive. The AR platform is just fast.
I've never had a malf in either rifle so I consider that irrelevant. If you have a modern AR that malfs once in awhile, something is broken or mistuned. Figure it out and fix it.
For a interesting story about AR's running dirty do a quick Google search for "Filthy 14"
Short version: BCM carbine that's never been cleaned, or jammed. Past 30k rounds now I believe.
FlyinBryan
Member
lol, lets just consider it another rediculous claim.
leafy bug, i'd like to hear what your actual combat experience is as well.
for me, i had an arsenal milled sam7 and sold it to fund my first ar. haven't looked back since. the ar is much more accurate, and even better than actual accuracy, is way easier to shoot well. i can shoot groups at 200yds with my colt the same size of groups shot at 50 yds with my arsenal. i'll likely get another ak someday, but i won't spend what i spent on the arsenal and the ar will always be the go to.
for me, i had an arsenal milled sam7 and sold it to fund my first ar. haven't looked back since. the ar is much more accurate, and even better than actual accuracy, is way easier to shoot well. i can shoot groups at 200yds with my colt the same size of groups shot at 50 yds with my arsenal. i'll likely get another ak someday, but i won't spend what i spent on the arsenal and the ar will always be the go to.
JustinJ
Member
An american vet who has shot only an M4 in combat is a no better judge of which is better than a Russian soldier who has shot only an AK.
allaroundhunter
Member
It actually is disputed....multiple times just here on THR.....but that is for another thread (actually it isn't, it already is another thread)
ugaarguy
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Perhaps you'd like to read an expert's very strong dispute of your assertion - http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7742629&postcount=77
Open Source Credentials - http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/mos/special/18z.html
35 Whelen
Member
^^^^
That's wisdom.
Blanket statements such as "AR's are better." need quantification. Better at what?
AR's are more accurate, but in my experience they're ideal for poking holes in a piece of paper,r making a piece of steel go "ding" or shooting small, 4-legged mammals. If that's what you want from a rifle, then get an AR. I shoot High Power and most people use AR's and shoot teeny little groups with them, but realistically, that's about the limit of their usefullness.
In semi autos, I own an AR, a Mini-14, two SKS's and a Garand. They all feed, fire and eject with practically 100% reliability. The rifles shooting the dinky bullets get the nod for playing around. The others are for business.
35W
lloydkristmas
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I apologize in advance, I didnt read any replies past the first page. Consider an AK74 type variant. The 5.45mm is SUPER cheap right now, and has almost no recoil with a proper '74 type muzzle brake. Both of these factors lend themselves particularly well to 3gun type shooting. I've seen guys with low caliber AK's dominate in up-close type games/matches. The AK is certainly capable of reaching out on the long distance stages too
chris in va
Member
I did. Saiga conversion, sold it to fund my M&P Sport. Don't regret it one bit.
JustinJ
Member
Liberal thinking? Thats a purely nonsensical statement which basically eqautes to: i don't like what you said + i don't like liberals = you think like a liberal.
So based on your earlier line of thinking, if a soldier carrying an AK shoots a soldier carrying an M4 we should all believe him when he says his rifle is better? I'd bet the soldiers whose M4s jammed at Wanat were wondering how useful their better accuracy is with a gun that won't fire. In regards to the better accuracy of an M4, it adds no advantage given the practical range is limited to 300 yards (although that may be a stretch) at which an AK can easily hit center mass and do far more damage. And when one compares the AK74 to the M4 the practical "accuracy advantage" all but dissapears.
Do any of you other fellas remember the Ralph Phillips cartoon from the late 60s early 70s? Or, how about reading The Secret Life of Walter Mitty in 10th grade English? I'm waiting to hear the OP's military experience.
Goodness know I haven't any experience either as an LEO, or in military. I don't even have any formal training with carbines. Although, I have stayed at many Holiday Inns. Might be that's why I like both AKs and ARs. I have owned the WASR-10s, Bustmaster A3s, and Colts both A2 and A3 models. The odd thing to me was that none of these carbines failed to fire when I pulled the trigger. They were fun to play with.
But, I'm still waiting to see the OP's experiences with trigger application in combat. I might learn something from him, then again, given my limited knowledge of the matter, I guess that doesn't set the bar very high. Maybe he does have combat experience; maybe not. Then again, maybe he's just bored, because he couldn't go out for recess.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Geno
Goodness know I haven't any experience either as an LEO, or in military. I don't even have any formal training with carbines. Although, I have stayed at many Holiday Inns. Might be that's why I like both AKs and ARs. I have owned the WASR-10s, Bustmaster A3s, and Colts both A2 and A3 models. The odd thing to me was that none of these carbines failed to fire when I pulled the trigger. They were fun to play with.
But, I'm still waiting to see the OP's experiences with trigger application in combat. I might learn something from him, then again, given my limited knowledge of the matter, I guess that doesn't set the bar very high. Maybe he does have combat experience; maybe not. Then again, maybe he's just bored, because he couldn't go out for recess.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Geno
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Geno,
The OP - FNP45 - never claimed any combat experience. He just asked opinions on which would be better for 3-gun competition.
I think we've veered far enough off that topic that we can call this discussion a failure.
Apart from asserting which rifle you'd rather have when Russian paratroopers are falling from the sky, can we limit opinions to which platform you prefer in 3-gun competition.
If you have no experience in 3-gun competition, this is a clue that we might not care about your opinion.
The OP - FNP45 - never claimed any combat experience. He just asked opinions on which would be better for 3-gun competition.
I think we've veered far enough off that topic that we can call this discussion a failure.
Apart from asserting which rifle you'd rather have when Russian paratroopers are falling from the sky, can we limit opinions to which platform you prefer in 3-gun competition.
If you have no experience in 3-gun competition, this is a clue that we might not care about your opinion.
Is it to provide a means for moving the bolt forward if it doesn't go into full battery? Kind of like pushing the back of the slide on a 1911 or the operating handle on an M1.
Since the BCG doesn't have any fixed parts outside of the receiver, what else would you push?
It's actually an elegant and effective design if you think about it. Unless you forget to latch your charging handle, there are no parts outside of the receiver cycling rapidly.
I my self have no combat experience at all, although I do wonder what it would have been like had I had joined not as a I'm a bad ass sort of dream but as a life experience sort of thing.
I posted the question because I'm traveling for work right now and had this on my mind, so yeah recess wasn't an option.
I do agree that this subject has gotten a little off topic and was gonna lock it this morning but can't figure out how to threw tapatalk.
Looking for more of a three gun app, than an invasion survival type rifle, don't care it's not going to happen. If the size of the bullet matters I'll just hit em with a 1oz slug.
When I mentioned that I would get another on day I was thinking more along the lines of a rougher beater model with an underfold.
Thanks to all for the replies didn't mean to start an AK vs AR vs combat experience etc. but that naive of me.
I posted the question because I'm traveling for work right now and had this on my mind, so yeah recess wasn't an option.
I do agree that this subject has gotten a little off topic and was gonna lock it this morning but can't figure out how to threw tapatalk.
Looking for more of a three gun app, than an invasion survival type rifle, don't care it's not going to happen. If the size of the bullet matters I'll just hit em with a 1oz slug.
When I mentioned that I would get another on day I was thinking more along the lines of a rougher beater model with an underfold.
Thanks to all for the replies didn't mean to start an AK vs AR vs combat experience etc. but that naive of me.
The Sarge
Member
AR will win a paper punching contest. AK will win a gun battle.
Only you can answer your original question. Nobody else can.
Seriously I would go into a competition with either one. It is mainly about practice and not about the platform. I shoot one of my many AK's quite a lot. 5.56mm. I am deadly with that thing and am comfortable after thousands of rounds with it. Hand it to a guy who has never shot it and he shoots poorly. Gun did not change. Shooter did.
Only you can answer your original question. Nobody else can.
Seriously I would go into a competition with either one. It is mainly about practice and not about the platform. I shoot one of my many AK's quite a lot. 5.56mm. I am deadly with that thing and am comfortable after thousands of rounds with it. Hand it to a guy who has never shot it and he shoots poorly. Gun did not change. Shooter did.
JustinJ
Member
Huh? How is the opinion of a solider who uses an AK analagous to a fan in the stands of a race? Um, okay. The fact is, the "appeal to authority" arguement tactic fails when there are knowledgeable users on each side of the arguement. Simply put people many of the "AR over AK" crowd who become indignant when their platform's faults are mentioned are simply biased bc they were told their weapon is better and want to believe it for obvious reasons. Being that we are in the US we hear more soldiers who think the AR is superior because that is what they used and were told is better. Visit Eastern Europe, Africa and much of Asia and the consensus will be reversed.
Truth be told the reliability advantage of a select fire AK over an M4 is much lower when we discuss semi autos although it still goes to an AK from a reputable factory.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Reminds me of how the Russians are looking to replace it with the fugly AN-94 but money is the only thing stopping them.
JustinJ
Member
Reminds me of why SOCOMs acquisition order of SCAR-16s to replace M4s was cancelled.. Low production costs is one of the reasons the AK is the dominant military rifle of the world.
FN45: I went through the same phase myself. I own a Arsenal SGL21, discovered 3gun, and fell in love with it. Still have the Arsenal (and did shoot a few matches with it too), I've since also built a AR on a Noveske upper as my 3-gun rifle, but I definitely kept the SGL21 as well. The SGL21 does work for 3-gun. The manual of arms is a little different, but with a 1-3x or a RDS scope on it, it keeps up just fine with the ARs. Indian not the arrow 
. The only stages that give me trouble is the shotgun stages.
So, keep it, save money, and build that AR piece by piece. Look for deals, and you can get yourself a lot of AR for relatively little price. My Noveske Rogue Hunter with a AimpointC3 in a AD mount cost me less then the cost of the said rifle prebuilt from Noveske.
. The only stages that give me trouble is the shotgun stages. So, keep it, save money, and build that AR piece by piece. Look for deals, and you can get yourself a lot of AR for relatively little price. My Noveske Rogue Hunter with a AimpointC3 in a AD mount cost me less then the cost of the said rifle prebuilt from Noveske.
FlyinBryan
Member
i found the link in post 59 very interesting..
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7742629&postcount=77
thank you ugaarguy.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7742629&postcount=77
thank you ugaarguy.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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The SCAR-L as I recall didn't have enough of an advantage over the M4 to warrant the extra cost. The AN-94 however is being used by the Spetsnaz. The reason why the AK 74 is still being used in the standard military is that the officials don't feel as it's nessecery since they aren't at war and most of the people in the military aren't in it as a career so why bother changing? The AN-94 offers enough advantages over the AK 74 that it replaced the "king of assault rifles" in one of the top special forces groups in the world.
Did I mention that it's fugly?
Note: The magazine is canted to the right a few degrees.
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