Let's get to the bottom of the revolver lock issue once and for all

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I can still live a full life without any locks on my revolvers by choosing more wisely.

And I get to avoid all of that pride in ownership in a Brazillian knock-off too. I already get a taste of that owning a Springfield 1911A1. :D
 
plenty of hear say...........but where is the PROOF?!

i dont care for lock at all, but no one is able to show PROOF of the lock "locking" itself during fireing drills.........et cetera......


sure, there is plenty of "i read....", or "so and so claims..." but where is the PROOF? a link would be very helpfull.


and no, i dont buy "PROOF" based on somebodys reputation in the gun business.......
 
Jerry... if you want to learn more about it, instead of demanding that others bring proof to you, you can do your own homework.

Sounds like it wouldn't matter to you what was presented anyway, it seems you've pretty much made your mind up to disbelieve that there have been problems. If presented with first hand accounts, it sounds like you would probably dismiss it anyway, so what's the point? But as a member of the smith-wessonforum.com, I've read at least four first hand accounts of members who's S&W's inadvertantly locked up on them. You can do the research if you want to.
 
thanks for the hear say.

by the way, what was s&w prognosis on these problems?


and nothing against you personally either.

im just tired of the my gun, no it was my freinds gun, no it was gun writer so and so who saw it.......

im not disputing that it could happen, im not a "lock" fan, but if there are problems, why havent they been address by s&w?


the Ayoob story has me wondering why he would make a claim of seeing it first hand, and not hand carry that gun to the factory himself to throw out any spectualtions? and i dont have an ax to grind with him either.

just wondering where the tangible evidence is.

im a member on the s&w forum, and ive still yet to see hard evidence to support the claims.
 
Jerry... ok... you don't want to do the homework yourself.

A quick search brings up three S&W owners/S-W forum members right off the bat who reported directly of their problems... here is what they had to say:

45WheelGun on the S&W Forum:

"I am one of the three who have had their lock fail. Mine was also a lock spring, as verified by S&W."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Erich from Albuquerque, NM, member of the S&W Forum and others:

"I actually own a S&W model 60-15 3" with an idiot lock that has caused me trouble. When I oafishly knocked the unloaded gun from a countertop to the hardwood floor, the lock's "flag" mechanism (the part that has the little tit that engages the hammer itself and locks the hammer up) got a bit crossways in its slot and jammed the thing up tight as a drum. Since I was home and not engaged in a fight with a felon, I was able to dig the "key" out of the box in the safe and set it to right by fully engaging the lock and then disengaging it.

Had I not been home, I would have been holding a fairly small inert piece of steel. Even if I had the "key" on me, pulling out a keyring and trying to find an especially small one is not on my dance chart if I'm struggling and in need of my self-defense gun.

So . . . based on my experience, I would strongly advise you to look around until you found something without the idiot lock. You're too nice a guy to have to deal with such potentially dangerous hassles."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From Joni_Lynn on the S&W Forum:

"I don't use the lock in mine, but I do carry the key since the thing has engaged itself twice now.

I may disable it one of these days. In the meantime it is a totally useless carry gun in that condition.

Last time I shot it I couldn't get it to duplicate that action though. I figure there must be some way to jam it in one position so it stays put. No, I'm not sending it back to S&W. I've found their customer service to be quite friendly and not at all difficult to get along with, but sometimes when a gun has been in '4 times' for the same thing I wonder if the night janitor is doing the work on mine. Eventually mine were all fixed or replaced. The majority of my S&W's have been picture perfect from the start.

The gun in question is: My "ex-carry" gun is a S&W 340PD, the ammo for carry is Federal 125gr 357 in the silver box. The 158 American Eagle stuff is a bit on the testy side recoil wise, but I've shot some of that as well.

I know what to remove and where to remove it from to disable that thing. I don't see how it could possibly have engaged by itself now that I look at it, but then again my key also rounded off so I can't move it either way anyhow. Now I just need to consider if I want to do it or not."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Do you think these three S&W forum members are the only S&W users on the planet who've had problems with the locks unexpectedly lock up on them? There are other first hand accounts I've read, but you'll have to dig those up yourself if you want to read them.

If you choose to contact these members directly, you can do so through the forum. Beyond that you can do more research if you're unconvinced that there are problems with the locks self engaging.

I'm not saying the problems are widespread, simply that they do happen!

What do you expect S&W to do, declare publicly that they've had problems with some of the locks??? Take out an ad in the gun magazines telling everyone that there have been some problems with the locks?

The problems are not that widespread, but if you have a S&W with the lock, there is a possibility you could have a problem. If you have a S&W without the lock, there is no possibility of a lock related problem. That simple.
 
Sounds like Jerry'd deny the existence of God unless the burning bush told him and maybe not believe even then. :D
 
Boats, that was funny.

DHart, im just wanting some (while firing) proof. dropping any gun can cause some sort of failure, ........et cetera..., i just, nor have you, seen any tangible evidence to proove this "theory" like the burning bush? :)

im not saying that any forum member is lying, god knows(if i can say that here) that there are those among us who will make up storys to discredit something they dont like......just look at the glock forum.

im sure that if there is credible proof about locks engaging during firing, that it will be waived like a red flag by all those who, like me, hate the lock.

'til then, it is as Boats eluded to, theory or hear say, or one mans word against another, we dont even have a poponderance of evidence, let alone beyond reasonable doubt.


dont get upset by my posts, im looking for the answers too. im just not easily swayed.

p.s. i saw those posts long ago on the s&w forum, i even posted a thread for the latest answer on the issue........im 681ismyfavorite.
 
Jerry... I gave you the names of three smith-wesson.com forum members who reported problems.

If you still disbelieve there could be a problem with the lock why don't you just write to them directly and ask them to tell you directly what happened? I really think you're just living in the State of Denial. ;) And that's fine by me... it's not my job to convince you, nor does it matter that you are convinced.
 
And, again, I had a 66 tie up ONCE because the ejector rod unscrewed. That's one of hundreds of thousands although I'm sure we could come up with 8 just among those posting today. Perhaps a mainspring breaking, gotta be a few of those per hundred thousand....

Is that a statistical anomaly or evidence of a real manufacturing problem?

Should I therefore refuse to carry every Smith product that ties up due to that failure? Perhaps go back to the break-top models before they added that newfangled failure-prone hand ejector?

That's the problem I have with the lock non-issue. One, two, even a dozen incidents out of a massive production run does not a design flaw make.
 
The difference lay in this:

Ejector rod--essential equipment for a modern revolver firing powerful ammo.

Integral lock--teats on a bull.

I'll take my chances on something essential to the design and not on the extraneous.
 
Thank you care-bear, you help to make the point!

The point is that with there already being so many opportunities for potential problems (bad ammo, ejector rod unscrewing, etc.) it doesn't make sense to add yet another potential issue when you can so easily side step it!... we've got enough to worry about already without willingly taking on another possible cause for functional failure.

If I can easily eliminate one possible cause of trouble, by buying a gun without the lock, I'm going to do it. And as for the other possible causes of problems that I can't so easily eliminate, I will just have to live with them.

This is why most of us who refuse to buy the guns with locks do so, just to do a small part in reducing potential problems... we've got enough to worry about already. :uhoh:

But for those who don't mind adding another possible problem, I say have at it and have a great time doin' it! It's your money, your life and won't have any impact on the rest of us. :)
 
You take photos for a living and I write for mine. Do you mind if I envy your skills for awhile? ;)
 
If the statistical chance of any failure is infinitesmal, adding 1 or a hundred to "infinistesmal" doesn't change it at all.

Which is why I don't care. :D

My objection to the locks is solely esthetic and philosophical, I just can't accept an "increased risk" argument as intellectually sound. I keep wanting to slap myself upside the head with a stats book when I try. :evil:
 
I don't stay at home three seasons of the year for fear of being struck by lightning while outside.

Then again, I don't strap a lightning rod to my back to show how unafraid of lightning I am just because statistically the odds are still remote that I might get hit.

The odds are still worse carrying the lightning rod than not, so why bother carrying it?
 
I never wore a hockey helmet when I drove just in case the airbag went off accidentally and now I don't insist on only driving older cars due to those newfangled side airbags.

Because realistically the risk of a mishap is no greater.

It's just the cost of driving a new car.

Anyway, I'm out. Someday I will be wealthy and/or tasteful enough to be more picky of my guns. :evil:

You do have a way with words Boats. :D
 
I'm just screwin with ya Boats. :)

I already get a taste of that owning a Springfield 1911A1.
Only AFTER you changed the mainspring housing!

What is Taurus "knocking off" - Rossis? They didn't copy S&Ws crappy gun lock did they?
 
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