Let's Talk .380ACP.

[1911Tuner]

IMHO, the .380

at powder-burn range, fired into the lower abdomen and groin area 5-6 times rapidly would make anybody except maybe the Incredible Hulk
turn loose and head for the nearest hospital.

I've got friends who look down on the cartridge, but so far, I've
had no takers to volunteer as test dummies. No...It's not a
"combat" round. It wasn't designed to be. It was designed and
intended to chamber in small, light, handy autopistols. There are
some very nice little pistols out there that will take the cartridge,
and it will serve well in close range, personal defense.

Think of it as an Emergency Rescue Team that has a 2-second
response time.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[foghornl]

I am not a fan of the .380, but I look at it this way...If it is what you have, are proficient with it, and it is on hand when things go poo-poo, well then, "run whatcha brung".

 

[cordex]

I've got friends who look down on the cartridge, but so far, I've
had no takers to volunteer as test dummies.

Probably won't find a bunch who'll let you shoot them with a pellet pistol either.
Does that make .177 the ultimate defensive caliber?

 

[1911Tuner]

Ultimate?

Who said aything about ultimate? My point was that it shouldn't
be underestimated. What was yours?

 

[cordex]

My point was that it shouldn't
be underestimated. What was yours?

My point? I thought that was obvious.
That a calm, rational person's refusal to let you shoot them with a particular gun/bullet/caliber does not imply anything about that given tool.

I don't like getting cut, scraped or otherwise injured with sharp things and would vociferously oppose any attempt at flailing me with a thorn bush, but in a discussion of defensive tools, you wouldn't be likely to bring up thorny plants as good defensive tools just because I'd rather not be beaten with one, right?

"A doesn't like to be injured with B, therefore B is suitable for defending myself against a raging, attacking, violent C." is irrational.

.380 may be a great defensive caliber. Has a lot of great things going for it, especially the size of weapons that shoot it.
But it doesn't make sense to use silly logic to support it, eh wot?

 

[1911Tuner]

Logic

 

[CZ52GUY]

As described by Stephen A. Camp...

...http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38specialor380acp.htm

The link above is a good discussion of .380 ACP which provides an objective viewpoint without the "religious overtones" .

His reviews of the Makarov, Bersa Thunder and CZ-83 (a 9x18 and two 9x17's) all speak to the pro's and con's of < 9x19 autoloaders.

Best wishes,

CZ52'

 

[Dave R]

FWIW, I did my own testing of terminal ballistics using wet newsprint media and throw-away denim to simulate clothing.

The .380 102gr Golden Sabre expanded reliably with up to 5 layers of denim in front of the newsprint. Penetrated about 8-9".

The 9mm load (115gr. Silver Tips) expanded reliably to 7 layers of denim, and penetrated about 10-12" in the media.

Looks to me like .380 is about 70% of a 115 gr. 9mm. Is that good enough for you?

 

[CZ52GUY]

I read this one over at GT and had to shake my head...

...http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185135&highlight=WOUND+BALLISTICS

In the end...I'm not sure that luck doesn't exceed caliber in importance.

Stay safe,

CZ52'

 

[tbeb]

I carried a 12-shot .380, loaded with Silvertips, for 8 years. I started with Silvertips and stuck with them because they were 100% reliable, and a good choice back then. Today I'd probably choose the Corbon JHP. I just reverted back to a snub .38 for one reason or another. Anyhow, I consider .380 caliber equal to .38 special caliber(from a snubby) as a manstopper.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I think the 380 has a place for the simple fact that it can be packaged in a small totable gun. I normally carry a 9mm P7PSP and there are times that is just to big to be easily concealable. My little colt gov380 steps up to the plate in these situations.

As it has been said many times, it is about shot placement. I can put the 380rounds where I want so I am comfortable with them. Sure I liked to carry a 10mm but sometimes what I like and what is reasonable do not work out.

 

[horge]

Slight shift of topic:
What about .380 headshots?

Does anyone know if a .380 JHP headshot likely produces reliable stoppage? I mean, I used to feel assured of it (with PMC Starfire or Remington Golden Sabre), but some pontifications online would have me believe otherwise...

I mean, even with fairly hard bone to deal with, the concussion has to be a consideration at a minimum. Or wouldn't it be?


Thanks,
h

 

[JohnKSa]

There's a reason you won't find combat schools or LE practicing head shots except with rifles. Maybe the Special Forces types do, but that's probably with specialized equipment.

Not only are heads relatively small, the move around a lot and therefore are hard to hit.

Worse than that, some of the densest bone in the body is found in parts of the skull.

Even the face, which isn't all that sturdy, has a lot of odd shapes and open cavities which tend to do funny things with expanding bullets. Like deflecting them in strange directions or even causing them to fail.

A friend of mine recounts a story from his youth about a fellow who was a mean drunk. In one altercation he was shot in the center of the forehead with a .38 special revolver. Due to the slant of his forehead and the sturdiness of the frontal bone, he was only knocked down. When he immediately got back up (a bloody mess, but otherwise none the worse for wear), the shooter decided that running was a better course of action.

All that to say that shooting someone in the head with a .380 probably isn't all that great an idea. But then shooting someone in the head with anything other than a magnum caliber pistol probably isn't all that great an idea period.

 

[horge]

I copy that.
Thanks, John.