Cryogaijin
Member
I am thinking about getting a new bolt gun. My entire life I've had (or had access to) Rem 700s. I'm interested in learning about other bolt actions. What advantages do other bolts have to the r700.
Lets talk about Bolt Actions.
- Thread starter Cryogaijin
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Axel Larson
Member
As far as surplus goes there are Mosin Nagants and Mausers. Both have history to them and shoot pretty accurately, and ammo for either is affordable.
Other option would be to check out Ruger's new scout although I have heard it is far too heavy for what it is. But it would give you the option of having ten round magazines.
Then there is always the Enfield, ammo is a little more expansive but it has a ten round capacity and also has the history part. The ones I have held are nice.
I wish someone would come out with a Enfield like rifle chambered in 308.
Other option would be to check out Ruger's new scout although I have heard it is far too heavy for what it is. But it would give you the option of having ten round magazines.
Then there is always the Enfield, ammo is a little more expansive but it has a ten round capacity and also has the history part. The ones I have held are nice.
I wish someone would come out with a Enfield like rifle chambered in 308.
blackDdefense
Member
Look at a Stiller action. There are really nice but pricey.
Vern Humphrey
Member
The Winchester Model 70 Classic or pre-64 is the main contender. The Pre-64 has a simple, elegant, easily adjusted trigger, mauser claw extractor and a 3-position striker-locking safety. The current versions have a more complex, multi-lever trigger which I don't think is an improvement.
aka108
Member
One of the smoothest and most beautiful bolt actions is the 1909 Mauser. Can be the basis of a very nice custom rife, converted into a rough truck gun or just left alone. One of the nicest is the Peruvian contract rifles mfg by Mauser or the Argentine (more common) made by DWM iin Berlin. Beautiful machine work.
ZeroJunk
Member
The practical difference between the Rem 700 and some of the others is an external claw extractor such as the Winchester Model 70's although they have made some push feeds also, the location of the safety, and how the safety works. We don't hear much complaint about extractor failure, so I don't know that it's much of an issue. But, it is nice to be able to extract a cartridge without having to completely close the bolt. Safety position is just personal preference. But, a safety that locks the sear so that if the trigger malfunctions the rifle can fire when taken off safety is not my favorite design.
Some rifles are just prettier than others.
Some rifles are just prettier than others.
BluegrassDan
Member
The contolled feed Mauser-style actions are different from the Remington push feed. For some reason I prefer controlled feed, but that doesn't mean that push feed are bad. You can find controlled feed on the Ruger M77, new and pre-64 Winchester model 70, and Kimber rifles.
bigedp51
member
Cryogaijin
I'm 60 years old and was like you and always bought Remington bolt actions, BUT in the last few months I have purchased two Stevens 200 bolt actions which are half the price of the Remington 700.
Below are a brand new Remington 700 and a Stevens 200, and the Remington had one bolt locking lug that was barely touching from the factory.
The Savage/Stevens rifles have a floating bolt head that insures that both locking lugs always contact equally which aids in accuracy.
With the Savage/Stevens line of rifles you can customize the rifles very easily and hot rod them for street use.............
Or put bigger tires on them for off road use.........
I'm 60 years old and was like you and always bought Remington bolt actions, BUT in the last few months I have purchased two Stevens 200 bolt actions which are half the price of the Remington 700.
Below are a brand new Remington 700 and a Stevens 200, and the Remington had one bolt locking lug that was barely touching from the factory.
The Savage/Stevens rifles have a floating bolt head that insures that both locking lugs always contact equally which aids in accuracy.
With the Savage/Stevens line of rifles you can customize the rifles very easily and hot rod them for street use.............
Or put bigger tires on them for off road use.........
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
I've always been a Winchester man myself. I simply prefer the 3 position safety.
Savages are inexpensive, and extremely accurate rifles.
Savages are inexpensive, and extremely accurate rifles.
langloisandy
Member
Tikka
+1 billion for the Tikka!
Andy
+1 billion for the Tikka!
Andy
I feel the Savages are better than the current Remington 700's for many reasons. The first being accuracy. I've yet to see a Remington 700 out of the box that will shoot anywhere near as most Savages will out of the box. While they shoot decent, most I've seen have shot around 1" groups while I've seen several Savages that shot .5" groups out of the box.
With the Savage you don't have to worry about the bolt handle breaking off, which is very common with the Remington, with the Savage you get a much better trigger right out of the box if you get the Accu Trigger. Not to mention, you don't have to worry about the Savage going off when you flip the safety off, and you can adjust the trigger to suit your preference very easily.
I just think the Savages are a better rifle all the way around. That being said, I can't comment on the Winchester Model 70, as other than handling one that a buddy has, I've never really had much experience with them.
With the Savage you don't have to worry about the bolt handle breaking off, which is very common with the Remington, with the Savage you get a much better trigger right out of the box if you get the Accu Trigger. Not to mention, you don't have to worry about the Savage going off when you flip the safety off, and you can adjust the trigger to suit your preference very easily.
I just think the Savages are a better rifle all the way around. That being said, I can't comment on the Winchester Model 70, as other than handling one that a buddy has, I've never really had much experience with them.
Awsomepossum
Member
I would go with an tikka t3. yes it is LH.
Cryogaijin
Member
I've gotten a description of the winchester action, and the steven's action, but how are the Tikka and Savage actions different?
MtnCreek
Member
I have zero exp w/ the accu-trigger, but the above is not true of the older savages (I have 3 and I think all but one has the flat back reciever, if that helps date them).
Don't know about the Tikka; the savage action is kinda similar to a remington. It's a push feed action. It's heavily built and as Mr. P51 noted, has a floating bolthead (unlike Rem). The barrel is secured in place w/ a castle nut (unlike Rem), making home barrel swaps easy (so I'm told). They seem to be machined pretty true. The raceway for the bolt on every one I have lacked proper finishing, but that's common with rifles in that price range and pretty easy to correct. There's decent aftermarket support for the savage actions and I believe more products will become available in the future.
I prefer the remington; that's what I started out with. Also there's no limit to aftermarket stocks; whatever you want, they make it for a 700. The savage is more 'do-it-yourself' friendly.
Take your pick.
Leaky Waders
Member
Browning and Weatherby actions are different too. They have shorter bolt bolt lift for easy manipulation with a scope.
Weatherby actions are supposed to be very strong.
Weatherby actions are supposed to be very strong.
BrocLuno
Member
All these actions are based on Mauser starting point. But many have improved and refined the action for some reason. the trick is to find the reason. Weatherby actions have many smaller lugs and 60* bolt lift. There are others who thought this was/is a good idea and followed suit. It help in cycling speed and scope clearance.
All two lug bolts will have more lift rotation. Some are slicker and faster than others. Enfield may be the slickest and fastest? Some old military actions are excellent. Some are split top receivers which make scope mounting difficult, some are bridged receivers which are easier to adapt.
Ruger's older bolts had safeties on the tang like a lot of shotguns. I really like that. Some new Euro guns do too. But, they got a bad rep for being less safe? Remington blocks the trigger, but may not block the bolt and actual firing pin. So you really have to dig deep to find out how safety is applied IF you plan to carry with one in the chamber. Winchesters older wing safety is a joy, but I don't know about the new ones.
TIKKA and some others have gone to nearly full closed receivers with just an ejection port (very strong and very stiff for accuracy), but then they have to load detachable magazines (which I like) and insert from below. All trade-offs. Some better than others
Stevens isn't the only rifle with a floating bolt head - the Mossberg ATR and 4x4 both have it too - and even though they are moderate priced rifles, they shoot well
Extractors and ejectors come in flavors too. Blade ejectors, pin ejectors, etc. Most are tough enough to handle commercial ammo and stuck shells. Hand loads with pressure signs may be a bit much for all but the strongest. So if you are going to shoot hot loads, you may make up your mind based on extractor design?
All two lug bolts will have more lift rotation. Some are slicker and faster than others. Enfield may be the slickest and fastest? Some old military actions are excellent. Some are split top receivers which make scope mounting difficult, some are bridged receivers which are easier to adapt.
Ruger's older bolts had safeties on the tang like a lot of shotguns. I really like that. Some new Euro guns do too. But, they got a bad rep for being less safe? Remington blocks the trigger, but may not block the bolt and actual firing pin. So you really have to dig deep to find out how safety is applied IF you plan to carry with one in the chamber. Winchesters older wing safety is a joy, but I don't know about the new ones.
TIKKA and some others have gone to nearly full closed receivers with just an ejection port (very strong and very stiff for accuracy), but then they have to load detachable magazines (which I like) and insert from below. All trade-offs. Some better than others
Stevens isn't the only rifle with a floating bolt head - the Mossberg ATR and 4x4 both have it too - and even though they are moderate priced rifles, they shoot well
Extractors and ejectors come in flavors too. Blade ejectors, pin ejectors, etc. Most are tough enough to handle commercial ammo and stuck shells. Hand loads with pressure signs may be a bit much for all but the strongest. So if you are going to shoot hot loads, you may make up your mind based on extractor design?
I spend a lot of time at my local range and I hang out with a bunch of guys that have more money than sense when it comes to guns. I get a lot of opportunities to shoot difference brands of rifles. What I've found is that you can pretty much pick your poison. They are all good and all have their downsides.
I really don't know what all of the Savage vs. Remington stuff is about. I've seen several box stock Savages shoot into the .5s and under and just as many box stock Remingtons do the same. My first SPS Tactical easily shot into the .2s and .3s at 100 yards with a 168gr SMK using Sierra's listed "accuracy load."
It's all give and take. I've seen one and heard of a few instances of Remington bolt handles coming off at the solder joint. It also isn't uncommon for one lug to have more contact than the other, but neither of these problems are difficult to remedy.
With the Savages, I've seen a couple of the floating bolt heads separate because the pin broke. Savages are more difficult to bed and their accuracy (from what I've seen) is very sensitive to the torque on the action screws.
The barrel nut thing with the Savage that's supposed to make barrel swaps easy, isn't all that big a deal. Converting a Remington to the same system is as easy as making a call to Pac Nor, if swapping barrels is important to you.
I opted to go the Remington route because I think the bolt is stronger without the floating bolt head. I also liked the broad accessories market for the 700. It cost all of $35 to have my smith lap the lugs when he installed my last barrel. My current .308 rig is based on a 700 action with a 26" Krieger barrel with the chamber cut so that a 175gr SMK loaded to 2.8" OAL will have the bullet .020" into the lands. There's a guy at my range that has the exact same rig, except that his is built around a Savage action. We're both running HSP stocks with similar trigger pulls. We both shoot from bipods. When we happen to be there at the same time shooting, we often compare each other's performance and what it boils down to is who is having a better day.
Unless you are willing to go to pain staking measures loading your ammunition and are chasing that elusive 0 group, you're wasting your time with anything more than a plain Jane action from either Savage or Remington. Of course, I'd love a Stiller, Surgeon or BAT, but I really don't need it.
Any one you choose, you run the risk of getting a lemon, just like with anything else. When you buy an off the rack rifle, it's what you get. A rifle with a factory barrel. It will likely shoot straight, but these days accuracy is less of a concern to me than things like the number of rounds that I can shoot before my groups open up or the POI shifts or accuracy goes south due to copper fouling.
Personally, if I were shopping for a new rifle and wanted to do it on a budget, I'd go for a Stevens 200 or Remington 700 ADL just for the action and start from there.
I haven't messed with Tikkas much. I think they're ugly.
Like I said, I think they're all good. I'd suggest going to you local shop and checking out as many as you can and see what you like. This may sound shallow, but I have to like the way a rifle looks to love it.
I really don't know what all of the Savage vs. Remington stuff is about. I've seen several box stock Savages shoot into the .5s and under and just as many box stock Remingtons do the same. My first SPS Tactical easily shot into the .2s and .3s at 100 yards with a 168gr SMK using Sierra's listed "accuracy load."
It's all give and take. I've seen one and heard of a few instances of Remington bolt handles coming off at the solder joint. It also isn't uncommon for one lug to have more contact than the other, but neither of these problems are difficult to remedy.
With the Savages, I've seen a couple of the floating bolt heads separate because the pin broke. Savages are more difficult to bed and their accuracy (from what I've seen) is very sensitive to the torque on the action screws.
The barrel nut thing with the Savage that's supposed to make barrel swaps easy, isn't all that big a deal. Converting a Remington to the same system is as easy as making a call to Pac Nor, if swapping barrels is important to you.
I opted to go the Remington route because I think the bolt is stronger without the floating bolt head. I also liked the broad accessories market for the 700. It cost all of $35 to have my smith lap the lugs when he installed my last barrel. My current .308 rig is based on a 700 action with a 26" Krieger barrel with the chamber cut so that a 175gr SMK loaded to 2.8" OAL will have the bullet .020" into the lands. There's a guy at my range that has the exact same rig, except that his is built around a Savage action. We're both running HSP stocks with similar trigger pulls. We both shoot from bipods. When we happen to be there at the same time shooting, we often compare each other's performance and what it boils down to is who is having a better day.
Unless you are willing to go to pain staking measures loading your ammunition and are chasing that elusive 0 group, you're wasting your time with anything more than a plain Jane action from either Savage or Remington. Of course, I'd love a Stiller, Surgeon or BAT, but I really don't need it.
Any one you choose, you run the risk of getting a lemon, just like with anything else. When you buy an off the rack rifle, it's what you get. A rifle with a factory barrel. It will likely shoot straight, but these days accuracy is less of a concern to me than things like the number of rounds that I can shoot before my groups open up or the POI shifts or accuracy goes south due to copper fouling.
Personally, if I were shopping for a new rifle and wanted to do it on a budget, I'd go for a Stevens 200 or Remington 700 ADL just for the action and start from there.
I haven't messed with Tikkas much. I think they're ugly.
Like I said, I think they're all good. I'd suggest going to you local shop and checking out as many as you can and see what you like. This may sound shallow, but I have to like the way a rifle looks to love it.
Unless I missed it no one has mentioned CZ rifles. Not that I have a CZ but I am interested in the 550. Am I off the mark to be looking at a CZ550?
Maple_City_Woodsman
Member
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The Remington 700 is like a Ford Taurus, or a Toyota Camry - decent all around, but the definition of generic.
Look really hard at the new Winchester 70, the Browning A-bolt, and the Ruger M77. They all have unique features the Remington doesn't.
Look really hard at the new Winchester 70, the Browning A-bolt, and the Ruger M77. They all have unique features the Remington doesn't.
MtnCreek
Member
F150
So you are saying that they have safety issues? Or you are are saying the trigger isn't easily adjustable on the older ones?
I've never heard of them having issues going off when flipping the safety off, but it's been known for years that Remingtons have this issue, which is what I meant by that statement.
The accu trigger is also easily adjustable. All you do after you take the stock off is use their tool to turn a spring in or out.
And then there are the Blaser straaight pulls. Straight pulls can also be found on the K-11/31 milsurps. The latter being probably the most accurate milsurp you can buy. And the GP11 milsurp ammo is essentially match quality with very tight tolerances.
I've got a CZ 550 Varmint in .22-250. Most accurate centerfire I own. Fit and finish is pretty phenomenal. Only complaint I have is that you have to really pull the bolt back to get the empty to extract well. Might have something to do with a short action case in a long action bolt.
I have my eyes on a CZ 550 American in 6.5x55 now. I'd also like a CZ 527 in .223 or .204
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