Quantcast

Letter to the gun-grabbers of San Francisco

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Jim March, Mar 5, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jim March

    Jim March Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,732
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Rachel, Craig and whoever “Silence Dogood” is,

    The three of you have been Emailing people who you see as “gun nuts” regarding the Prop H situation in SF. Some of your comments include turns of phrase like “mindless sexually frustrated pricks” and go downhill from there.

    As one of the people you’re addressing, I’m going to respond rationally to you, and try and show you that there really is two sides to this debate.

    Where to start...well let’s start with some interesting statistics. Ever compared the number of murders and population levels between the single most “pro gun” state (Vermont) and the single most self-defense-restrictive area of the US (WashDC)?

    It’s rather interesting.

    Vermont’s population at 621,394 is larger than DC at 553,523:

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/50000.html

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/11000.html

    Washington DC basically bans all handguns, bans all carry of guns and strictly regulates long-guns. Vermont in contrast is one of only two states where anybody without a felony record can legally carry a handgun concealed or open with no prior government permission needed – and has since 1903. (Alaska copied this system in 2004 so for a very long time Vermont was uniquely pro-self-defense above all other states.)

    So if guns cause murder, one would expect more in Vermont?

    Not exactly. The total number of murders in Vermont in 2004 was 16:

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/documents/CIUS2004.pdf - page 256 as pages are printed in the document pages, not in the Adobe page number readout.

    The total in DC isn’t in that document that I could find but I did find a Washington Post reference to 420 murders in ’04 and even more in ’05:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/01/AR2006010101049.html

    (Only three of the VT murders were gun-related. Seven involved “knives or other cutting implements” and six were “misc. other weapons” – not at all what you’d expect in a place “awash in guns”.)

    Obviously, gun access isn’t the whole story regarding causes of violence.

    Chicago, another “gun free Mecca” according to gun control laws is another place with insane violence rates and often trades off with WashDC for the title of “murder capitol of the US”, and is one of the few other total-handgun-ban-zones in America.

    Still think taking SF in that direction is a good idea?

    ---------

    Let’s switch gears a second and talk about civil rights.

    Back in 2000 I lived in Richmond, just across the bay. Tough town. I had good roommates in a really bad apartment building. Every once in a while the manager would have some rather unsavory types renovate one or two of the units, and house them in it while they worked. Regular as clockwork, they’d open up a meth lab in the basement storage area. This was an old wood building with kids in it, mind you. We would do the usual, report to the cops and watch, they’d go away eventually.

    Well that summer it got worse than usual. Gang tags went up, including a big complex “mural” at the front of the building about 4ftx3ft that somebody was able to translate as “drugs for sale here” in street-mangled Spanish.

    I decided this wouldn’t do.

    So at 2:00am I’m out front of the building with a can of leftover black engine paint in one hand and the cover of one of my roommate’s Anime videos in the other. See, I can’t freehand draw for crap and needed a pattern for the nice multicultural “go away” sign I had in mind, and this cover art featured a nice post-modern skull’n’crossbones. Yup. I slapped a Jolly Roger all over that main tag.

    This was an exercise of my First Amendment civil right – the right to object to hideously dangerous and insane behavior literally underneath my home.

    What made it safe to exercise that right was my Second Amendment right – and the loaded 38Special snub-nose revolver in my pocket for the occasion.

    All of our civil rights are interlinked. You have only those civil rights that NOBODY can take away from you – based on your own personal power if necessary.

    Mao was correct: all power derives ultimately from the barrel of a gun.

    It is no accident that Democracy has increased in direct relation to the rise in firearms technology. There have been notable reverses, almost all of which are linked to socialism and/or communism…but three major empires of socialistic thought (Imperial Japan, Nazism and the USSR) have fallen.

    The first major outbreak of freedom in the western world involved the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215, in which the English king gave up “unfettered rule” when threatened with over 10,000 Longbowmen. The Longbow was the first weapon affordable by civilians that could stop a fully armored knight. It was the financial equivalent of a $500 rifle able to stop a $5,000,000 tank and it changed the balance of power for the good. However, it required major practice. The Swiss went in the same direction but with crossbows that didn’t require as much training (with some downsides related to rate of fire) and it is no accident that the English and Swiss pioneered Democratic principles as early as they did.

    A “world without guns” is no utopia. It is a recipe for tyranny either on a “street level” as seen now in most areas with heavy gun control, or national tyranny.

    ---------

    Now let’s talk about pacifism and race relations.

    Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King successfully used non-violent means for social change. At around the same time Dr. King’s effort largely succeeded in America (or at least, it was visibly obvious it was going to succeed), gun control became a pressing US issue.

    There are two reasons for this:

    1) Some “hardcore believers” on the left decided that pacifism was the only moral option to any problem, and developed a hatred of all forms of violence including lawful and moral self defense. By appearances, all three of you likely fit this mold.

    2) More quietly, some on the right realized that true equality would mean eliminating race-based discrimination in gun control, and hence broader gun control would be necessary to maintain the “normal” state of African-American disarmament.

    It is NO accident that the areas with the heaviest gun control laws are also areas of high minority and esp. African-American demographics. Washington DC and Chicago are hallmark cases, as is New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and many other urban areas.

    There are numerous references to this process. Clayton Cramer’s 1995 peer-reviewed history paper “The Racist Roots of Gun Control” is the seminal work in the field:

    http://www.constitution.org/cmt/cramer/racist_roots.htm

    In California, there’s a way to track this directly and in modern times. In this state access to a permit to legally carry a concealed handgun is “discretionary” on the part of police chiefs and sheriffs. There’s about 39,000 such permit across the whole state. It’s possible to sort out how many permits are issued in each county, and then cross-reference that by racial demographics. The results are rather interesting: in those counties with less than the state average black demographics, your odds of having a permit (regardless of your race) is six times higher than for residents of counties with more than the state average of blacks:

    http://www.equalccw.com/CCWDATA2003.html

    You can’t possibly be in favor of something like this.

    You should also choke on the documented corruption involved in this “discretionary” process:

    http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/colafrancescopapers.pdf

    …or the cronyism:

    http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/oaklandzen.html

    In short, when the pacifist element of the left chased heavy gun control as “utopia”, they played into the hands of the worst elements of the right and left, racists that couldn’t tolerate the idea of widespread black legal armament. As a side effect, the rate of female permit issuance is often even lower than minority access.

    Surprisingly, the “deep south” has gotten past this stuff because they had no choice but to acknowledge their racist past. So when you look at the spread of more rational gun policies wherein people get equal access to self defense based purely on the ability to pass a background check and training, the South is now universally under such rules, among the 38 states with such laws.

    You ought to pay attention to the spread of these “shall issue” gun carry laws over time:

    http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php

    By 2004 you’ll see that laws allowing legal self defense dominate the US.

    None of these states has gone “backwards” towards more restrictive limits on self defense. The reason is clear: the people willing to go through background checks and (usually) training aren’t the people anybody has to worry about.

    Now let’s get back to pacifism as a rigid choice:

    When I’m not doing pro-self-defense stuff, I’m an activist in the field of voting rights, specializing in the problems with electronic voting machines made by Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia, Hart Intercivic and the rest. I was a computer tech/LAN administrator from 1984 – 2000 and in mid-2003 came across some very disturbing reports on those machines.

    By mid-05 I was monitoring an election in San Diego, California as a volunteer for (and at the time a member of the board of directors of) Black Box Voting, a national civil rights organization for election reform. California election code 2300 lays out a civil right covering election monitoring by the public:

    ~~~
    2300. (a) All voters, pursuant to the California Constitution and this code, shall be citizens of the United States. There shall be a Voter Bill of Rights for voters, available to the public, which shall
    read:

    (9) (A) You have the right to ask questions about election procedures and observe the elections process.
    ~~~

    San Diego County announced ahead of time that they weren’t going to respect this right. It’s complicated but basically they took the entire vote-counting process and moved it inside a locked computer room and locked the public out. We couldn’t see bupkis.

    I knew this couldn’t be tolerated and I knew that civil disobedience of an illegal procedure might be called for. So before leaving for the elections office, I left my pocketknife behind, my sole weapon.

    Sure enough, around 10:30 that night I was arrested for walking into that closed room to observe the counting of the vote. I was jailed 18 hours before bailing out with my own $10k. The county was pissed enough to file false charges of felony election tampering, charges dropped the following week. You can read about for yourself:

    http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/8556.html?1122679073

    http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/8568.html?1122664155

    http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/9425.html?1124737282

    My point is this: I’m possibly the only person you’ve ever talked to who has actually used the civil disobedience techniques of Dr. King to effect social change related to a civil right. You may think you have a monopoly on pacifism, and that a “gun nut” like me couldn’t possibly demonstrate it, and you’d be wrong.

    Pacifism however isn’t a universal philosophy. It’s a “tool in the toolbox” to be used when appropriate. Gandhi used it against a Democracy with a free press, with great success. Dr. King did likewise. While elements of each were evil, the basic nature of each (Britain and the US) were fundamentally just. Had Gandhi or Dr. King tried it with a truly evil bunch like the Nazis or the old Soviet Union, they’d have failed rather miserably. Only force took them down – outright killing in the case of the Nazis, economic sabotage killing probably tens of thousands (at the hands of the US) in the case of the USSR - go feed google the terms:

    Siberian pipeline sabotage explosion

    ...if you don’t believe me.

    So when dealing with any civil rights violation by a government or individual (remember, ALL crimes with a victim are civil rights violations from murder on down) it is necessary to sort out whether their level of evil more closely corresponds to Germany in 1940ish or Britain at the same time and the US circa 1965.

    I judged the San Diego elections officials and the criminal justice system supporting them as being morally equivalent to the people Gandhi and King dealt with, and hence used similar tactics. In doing so I raised awareness of elections oversight issues and this is now a subject of reform legislation.

    Faced with a violent mugger I’d make another decision entirely, and you bet I’d want a gun on me. Because I assure you, its use would be completely appropriate under any rational moral system and current California law.

    In other words, you’ve misunderstood the lessons of the civil rights movement. It will be a very expensive mistake if you succeed with your plans for disarmament of all but government agents.

    Fortunately, your view is failing nationally. Proposition H is a stunt that will ensure just one thing: Republicans across the nation will point to this stupidity and then at their Democrat opponents and say “see, THAT is what you’ll get if you let Democrats get control here!”

    Congrats. You’ve managed to screw your party on a national level.

    Conclusion:

    A “guns are eeevil” mindset ignores the cultural and social issues behind America’s violence. Start with answering the question “why is DC’s murder rate so insanely high?” and it will take you to an inevitable conclusion: the real trick is to reform hearts, minds and culture, the places where violence starts.

    Gun control has been applied more stringently to the African-American community than any other, from before the days of the Civil War to present. As a result criminals who operated purely within their own communities weren’t dealt with as a serious issue by law enforcement until very recently. Even then, ask whether or not a murder of a black will get the same coverage on TV as the murder of a white. Would the Peterson murder have gotten any coverage at all if it had happened in Hunter’s Point among a black family? Would the latter have gotten as much police attention?

    Hardly.

    Gun control in minority communities has ensured that criminals who prey locally have a free reign – and reign they do, as the monarchs of the community. These “new rulers” have gotten younger and younger, setting up a situation completely abnormal to human societies: the adults of a community afraid of their own children.

    Is shooting these children the answer? Of course not! But not being afraid of them anymore is CRITICAL. Only then can the responsible members of the community restore civil order. To argue against this is to say that the community should be helpless and the police should be the only force for law and order in minority or any other community. Except that the law abiding members of the community are the ones that care about what happens…not outside and mostly white cops.

    OK, let’s play out a little scenario. Let’s say we’ve got three young black male teens walking through Hunter’s Point, or the Tenderloin or similar. They’re good kids, raised right, not in a gang but they listen to rap and dress a bit “urban hip-hop fashion”.

    So as they’re walking down the street, people of all races are afraid of them. There are little glances, there’s a tendency to back away, wary looks, hands covering wallets.

    What’s the effect?

    It’s going to break down their souls.

    Their choice is going to be to either get depressed over it or worse, see it as “respect” in a desperate effort to turn something rotten into something good.

    By the time they’re 18, they’re ready to kill somebody for “dissin’” (“disrespecting”) them, and we get absolutely unbelievable murder rates.

    Now arm those adults, legally, with training in the legal use of deadly force.

    The fear on the part of the lawful adults goes away. Now they can stand up straight as free citizens rather than subjects. They can report crime to the police, who are now their partners rather than their masters. They can comment negatively on gang tags, or wipe them out without fear of retribution.

    The balance of power in the community changes, for the better and 98% of the time without violence.

    This isn’t just theory.

    In 2001 Michigan with the insanely violent Detroit became one of those places where lawful self defense is possible. By 2002 Michigan’s murder rate per capita had dropped below that of Ohio for the first time in 40 years – and Ohio soon copied the self defense laws of Michigan and the rest of the “shall issue permit states”.

    I have a collection of newspaper articles from Michigan and elsewhere tracking the lack of problems caused by these laws and the notable lack of “blood in the streets” predicted by the gun-grabber set:

    http://www.equalccw.com/ccweffects.html

    Take a good look. This is why you’re losing and will continue to lose big.
     
  2. ElTacoGrande

    ElTacoGrande Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    463
    Location:
    República Aztlán
    Great letter Jim. I don't get how anyone can claim to be pro-black and yet want blacks to live in the most dangerous communities in America with no means to defend themselves.
     
  3. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,181
    Location:
    SouthEast PA
    Fantastic!

    Is this online anywhere other than this thread? I'd like to link it.
     
  4. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,908
    Location:
    Arizona
    Jim, you did a great job, mainly because you were able to document everything you said.

    The folks on the other side are usually totally emotional, and seldom document anything. When they do it's only from they're own kind. :barf:

    Of course in ultra-left San Francisco what you wrote will be largely ingored. But elsewhere more reasonable people will see and understand the points you made. ;)

    And in an overall view of the country, San Francisco doesn't count for zip.:uhoh:
     
  5. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,693
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Well said. VERY well said. And well-documented as well, citations for all the relevant points.
     
  6. ElTacoGrande

    ElTacoGrande Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    463
    Location:
    República Aztlán
    Incredible irony here, btw

    Jim, I just realized, some of the letters came from Silence Dogood. You may not have realized, "Silence Dogood" was actually an alias used by Benjamin Franklin as a joke! See: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/dogood.html

    And what would Ben have thought about Prop H?

    "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
     
  7. XLMiguel

    XLMiguel Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,551
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Jim, excellent job.

    As noted, though, most of 'those people' don't want to hear the facts, think it through, and connect the dots. That requires work, and it's so much easier and more gratifying to "feel", Still, some may get it, and one can only hope.
     
  8. Vermont Guy

    Vermont Guy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Ithaca, New York
    I would add just one more point to the comments on pacifism.

    Force (i.e., gun control) can't be used to make someone a pacifist. Gandi knew this and taught that for people who couldn't be pacifist it would be better for them to resort to force then to not defend themselves.

    http://www.davekopel.com/Religion/Self-defense-in-Asian-religions.pdf
     
  9. txgho1911

    txgho1911 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    973
    Location:
    Indiana;
    Just looked at SFGate_.com and did not see anything new on H. Is this getting copied to all the local media outlets?
     
  10. Jim March

    Jim March Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,732
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    So far it's online here only, and can be replicated so long as it's got my name on it :).

    It was just something I cranked out in response to...well basically a harassment campaign, which means three (so far) SF grabbers including the ultra-annoying Craig Marks.

    They apparantly plan to attend and disrupt the SF/Marin NRA Member's Council meeting.
     
  11. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,908
    Location:
    Arizona
    I always find it interesting that these left-wing (usually Democrats) always describe themselves as being "reasonable" and "pacifists" while at the same time thinking nothing is wrong with disrupting a meeting being held by someone that disagrees with them.

    I speculate about what they're reaction (and that of the media) would be if a "mob" of gun-rights people did the same thing to them... :evil:
     
  12. ElTacoGrande

    ElTacoGrande Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    463
    Location:
    República Aztlán
    I'm glad they're attending the meeting. Attending the meeting is a form of support. I hope the members there take the high road with them, no matter how disruptive they are. We all hope they have an open mind. The best way to help them have open minds is for us to also have open minds them and what they are doing and why they are doing it.

    My offer stands to anyone like that: If you're a liberal, left-wing, Bolshevik, whatever who hates guns and has never touched a gun, send me a PM and I'll take you out shooting, no politics, I'll just introduce you to shooting, what a gun is, how it works, and how to use it.

    Engels said that it's of vital importance for the workers to be armed. Gun control started (in the US) to disarm blacks, and it started in Europe to disarm Bolsheviks. Surely any left-wing person in the US can understand that historical fact and see its relevance to the left today?
     
  13. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,908
    Location:
    Arizona
    I think you're well intended, but the fact is these people do not have open minds, and believe that any position or thought that counters their own should be surpressed by any means they can muster. They will come to the meeting for the sole purpose of disrupting it and nothing else. The last thing they'll be interested in, is a free and open discussion of the issues.

    Because as Jim's just shown so well, in that kind of environment they loose.
     
  14. Jim March

    Jim March Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,732
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Well the good news is that this MC uses private property eateries who can order the bums thrown out and call the cops if they don't leave.

    What I'm worried about is any cars outside with NRA insignia getting vandalized. They may need somebody on security detail with a camera.
     
  15. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    3,385
    Why would someone be dumb enough to vandalize a car with an NRA sticker? :confused:
     
  16. Jim March

    Jim March Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,732
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Well let me show y'all some of the EMails we're dealing with here. I'll do slight "Art's granny editing".

    ---------
    From Craig Marks:

    On 9/11/01 3000 people died. We can never get them back. All the families mourning and friends and relatives...the mourning continues to this day, and will continue forever.

    Since that terrible day, approx 135,000 people have died in the US due to guns. That's the equivalent of FORTY FIVE 9/11s.

    Those deaths and mournings lie squarely on YOUR F%#ING SHOULDERS. YOU'VE KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN AL QAEDA, YET RATIONALIZE IT ALL IN YOUR BRAINLESS HEADS. DO YOU SLEEP SOUNDLY AT NIGHT? CAN YOU LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR....REALLY LOOK? DEEP INSIDE, YOU KNOW THE ANSWER...AND I CAN'T SAY I HAVE ANY PITY FOR YOU.....
    ---------
    Marks again:

    Troops,

    We in the NRA are going to win the Prop H battle anyway. So screw the rest.

    People say it's dangerous to have a gun in the house??? Well, lets look at the numbers. Facts, not emotions. 80% of the time, when a gun is used in a home, it's not the criminal that gets shot but a family member, friend, etc. And not the criminals gun. Your gun.

    But that means 20% of the time, it DOES get used correctly.

    We NRA folks are smarter than everyone else. We fall into the 20%. We dont shoot the wrong person. Accidents don't happen with us. We NRA folks are immune to statistics, because of our incredible training and intelligence. Or as Bush would say, "intellictince."

    Kisses,

    -CM

    PS: That 135,000 dead from guns will be much higher now that the stupid assualt weapons ban is gone! Semi-automatics for everyone! Allow criminals to legally buy AK-47s! Sheer brilliance!!!

    xoxoxoxo
    ---------
    Get the f&^k out of SF, ^$%holes. Just leave. Go to Texas or some place where you are wanted. Go hunting and shoot each other in the face with 200 pellets. The f%$#ing ironic thing is that one of you dumbf^[email protected] are likely to shoot one another by accident. Stats prove it. I can't wait for that s#[email protected] Shoot yourselves before somebody else does, like Dick Cheney.

    Mindless sexually frustrated pricks.
    ---------
    From Rachel:

    When one follows your recent politics, one must wonder if you people have any sense at all. When you hear about the level of firearm violence in this country, tell me, what do you think of yourselves? Do you REALLY think you have nothing to do with it?

    I live in San Francisco. This city is one of the few bastions of moral sensibility left in the country. The NRA thinking it will find support here is about as unlikely (and unwelcome) as BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN in Pat Roberton's DVD player.

    People are dying. Children are dying. Have you lost all touch with your humanity - do you really think your "right to bear arms" nonsense trumps human life? Why are you combatting the Brady Law? It's protective - it prevents deaths. It doesn't stop you monkeys from going to the shooting range on a Saturday night!!!

    If you REALLY believe you are justified - get your heads checked. (I'm sure you can afford the shrink bill.) Work through whatever it is that's got you so deluded and venomous and bullying.

    How do you sleep at night? Maybe a bottle of whiskey by the bed does the trick. Do you look at yourselves in the mirror? What do you see?

    I honestly don't understand how you can live knowing the effects of your policies and campaigns and slanderous advertising.

    Stay out of SF business. Leave us alone!

    -R. Welles
    ---------
    From "Dogood":

    I can't wait for all of us true believers to come to your next meeting. Your website is fabulous...and is almost hackproof.

    You guys really need a good F*&^. Just one [email protected]# should f#@$ some sense into you [email protected]#s. And the killing shall be over, just like in ALL OTHER WESTERNIZED CIVILIZATIONS THAT OUTLAW GUNS. (There are other countries out there??? We didn't know that.)

    So, F&^% YOU. LITERALLY.
    ---------

    Jim again. That's the mentality we're dealing with here.
     
  17. mordechaianiliewicz

    mordechaianiliewicz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,719
    Location:
    Western Missouri
    I am a biracial man who lives in an urban area. In my town, I've noticed differences between here and other urban areas in other cities.

    I live in a portion of Kansas City named Brookside which has a per capita income level somewhere between 65K-300K a year. (mostly in the 100K range is most of the residences). There is little crime amongst our largely limousine liberal area. However, there is an odd situation not often seen.

    Approximately 10 blocks to the East is where the ghetto begins. It's like an invisible wall. But the land values drop appreciably, and the faces of the neighborhood are more often tan, brown, or black. Sure enough, crime is higher in this area as well.

    Recently, a large number of East African immigrants moved into an older area of the city, pushing gangmembers into new turf, and beginning a nasty little war.

    Even given a higher murder rate than we've had before because of poor planning on the part of our city leaders, most all of this crime has been isolated to a relatively small segment of our little society. Young, black, gang members, with criminal histories stretching back to their teens, who get involved in the treacherous drug business, and get killed by competition. These same young black men though don't terrorize their neighborhoods the way the Crips and Bloods of LA do. Drug dealers in Washington DC, murderers get free tickets. Why?

    Amongst the black populations of those cities, the dead's relatives will always comment something like "--- was a good boy, but he got into drugs or got with the wrong crowd," or such.

    In Washington, or LA you often hear, "Got involved with guns" added to that. I occasionally hear such, and we have our gun control advocates here, but the culture is different.

    Older blacks in a city like Atlanta, Kansas City, Topeka, Richmond, Memphis, etc. are more likely to own guns (just like the white people are) than in Chicago, San Fran, or New York. It's relatively normal. So, the gangsters know not to f with the local community past a certain point. Do so and risk retribution.

    Older blacks in these neighborhoods can accept some drug dealing, a little vice, etc. b/c there isn't much opportunity in these neighborhoods, but they won't be held prisoner. The police come to my neighborhood on demand, because the people on my block have well paying jobs, they are white and Irish Catholic to a large degree (like many of our fine officers), and Anglo-Saxon Protestant when not.

    They think we have money and respect us. The cops aren't trusted in the black neighborhoods anywhere. The same limo liberals who can count on the cops showing up when they are needed b/c limolibs are white upper class folks are more than willing to disarm poor blacks, because they don't see any of these issues, and think the cops are great.

    Truthfully, the police cannot stop the engine behind the drug war, which fuels the gangs, arms them, nourishes them, and creates enough economic opportunity to kill over.

    Only strong armed black communities building upwards can do that. Too bad Northeast and Left Coast libs don't seem to know that.
     
  18. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    3,385
    Gotcha

    "This city is one of the few bastions of moral sensibility left in the country." :barf:

    I doubt Harry Callahan would think so.
     
  19. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Messages:
    5,906
    Location:
    Reno, Nevada
    Good work Jim

    unfortunately, I am willing to bet that it will have little effect (affect?) on whomever is writing the hate mail.
     
  20. TamThompson

    TamThompson Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    474
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Unfortunately, Jim, your noble letter, replete with facts, is doomed to fail. You aren't boosting anyone's self-esteem, you see, or giving out "feel-good" platitudes.

    It's interesting to note your opponent's use of cuss words and general violent language. I guess they have a limited vocabulary. And they sure sound violent...yet they don't want people owning guns. How about that? Boy howdy, sure takes a real man to try to...hack your website. I'd bet $100 that if you met that guy face-to-face he'd do some serious back-pedalling.

    Oh well, you've TRIED to save the SF children by preserving their parents' right to arm themselves. :(
     
  21. alan

    alan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,601
    Location:
    sowest pa.
    Excellent piece Jim. You realize that the anti types are unlikely to read it, but one hopes that a bunch of others do.
     
  22. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,181
    Location:
    SouthEast PA
    Jim,

    The writers of those emails have just become the poster children for the fallacies of misunderstanding the nature of statistics, and non sequitur.



    From http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm
    In all honesty, since they obviously can't make it past a high school debate team, they have no business being taken seriously in the setting of public policy.
     
  23. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,040
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    That's an excellent letter. Here's a small point: people have "free rein," not "a free reign." They can, indeed, reign as monarchs. Of all Americans with high school educations, I'd guess not 2% would be able to spot the error.

    I noticed the same thing. I have a hunch lots of people who project their feelings onto others end up becoming leftist extremists.
     
  24. Jim March

    Jim March Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,732
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Heh. Well yeah, I admit it's a mistake BUT it still works OK as a pun :).
     
  25. fiveoboy01

    fiveoboy01 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    That right there shows how irrational these people are. And I'll need a new keyboard now after spitting my soda all over it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice