You know after several E-mails with the seller. I really believe this man is going to make it right. I have simply offered to take a return of part of my bid, but he insists he is going to send a good scope to replace the "Leupold" and his uncle has e-mailed me also and said it will be made right. They were all fooled by the Leupold also. Dog-gone cloning idiots. But either way my eyes have been fully opened and will go farther to confirm any item I may bid on and/or stay with long time dealers. But in the end I feel all will be okay. There is still honor in a lot of men.
Leupold Chinese Clones ?
- Thread starter suprane
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redneck2
Member
Might want to heed this
If you are not an FFL, I believe you've committed a felony
Maybe and maybe not. See this thread discussing when a person is a dealer and requires a license.redneck2 said:
Huh ? Redneck never thought of that. Over the last fourteen years have bought many guns, some to shoot and some just to collect. Some I kept, some I resold. I don't advertise as a business, just an individual buying, enjoying and then reselling what I don't wish to keep. Every person has done that at one time or another. Not sure how that makes me a felon. If the rifle had moved me when it arrived I might have kept, but not a huge FS fan, like some of them, but my FFL just fell in love and I sold it to him. The scope I may have kept if it had been genuine, but kind of had my mind set on a NF NXS and thought a little profit would help that goal. So maybe I misstated "just buy and then sell" but that was my deep inner thought. I'll read the thread suggested by F.E. and get back to you. Appreciate your concern. Thanks.
Then you probably should spend some time studying the thread I linked to, and especially my posts in that thread. It is not obvious, nor clear, where the line between reselling guns as a hobby and being "engaged in the business" is. You might very well think that you are not engaged in the business of dealing in firearms; but the ATF, a judge and a jury could disagree.suprane said:
As the Fifth Circuit noted (United States v. Brenner (5th. Cir., 2012, No. 11-50432, slip opinion), at 5-6, emphasis added):
Not really. He just quoted the relevant statutes. What matters is how those statutes are applied to particular fact situations. And that's why I cited some relevant cases.suprane said:
It can come down to the question of when "an occasional sale at a profit" (which is okay) becomes "the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms" (which requires a license). And the difficulty is that there in no clear answer to that question. You could argue that your occasional sale is sufficiently infrequent enough not to be dealing; but if you're really unlucky it could well be up to a jury to decide.
redneck2
Member
I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay at Holiday Inn last night. I'm far from the world's moral authority. However, when you post that you bought it specifically to resell, that seems to be bordering on doing it as a business.
There was a guy here in South Bend that IIRC did pretty much the same thing with a pistol. Dude that bought it killed a cop. Seller ended up going to prison.
If the cops came knocking on my door asking if I knew about such and such gun that was taken off a felon, it wouldn't be the finest day of my life
It's your gig, do as you please. Just remember, nothing's illegal until you get caught.
There was a guy here in South Bend that IIRC did pretty much the same thing with a pistol. Dude that bought it killed a cop. Seller ended up going to prison.
If the cops came knocking on my door asking if I knew about such and such gun that was taken off a felon, it wouldn't be the finest day of my life
It's your gig, do as you please. Just remember, nothing's illegal until you get caught.
But I am. That's why I linked to that other thread in which I went into considerable detail about the law and the uncertainty of the law.redneck2 said:
I'm not giving legal advice, but I am trying to impress on folks that the law on when someone needs a license, and when one does not, in connection with the buying and selling of guns is not clear. That's pretty much the best we can do at this point.
So let's not let this thread devolve into yet another discussion of the law. That's been done, and the "answer" is no clearer now than it was then.
Wrong.redneck2 said:
GetmeoutaCT
Member
Suprane -
I agree with your take on the "throw in." Without the scope the starting bid was too high. Given that, I'm a bit concerned for you because (a) the seller had to know the scope would be factored into the starting bid for the reason you mention, which means he had to know you were figuring it in; and (b) if you do figure the scope in, the starting bid is much too low, given the cost of a genuine Mark 4, even used.
See what I mean? If you don't figure it in, the starting bid was too high. If you do, it was way too low.
Also, the seller has apparently declined to simply give you back a portion of your winning bid, which would be the easiest, fastest way to make things right.
This implies to me that all may not be right here. Did the seller say when he would make it good. A few days have now passed. . .
Good luck to you; hope it works out.
I agree with your take on the "throw in." Without the scope the starting bid was too high. Given that, I'm a bit concerned for you because (a) the seller had to know the scope would be factored into the starting bid for the reason you mention, which means he had to know you were figuring it in; and (b) if you do figure the scope in, the starting bid is much too low, given the cost of a genuine Mark 4, even used.
See what I mean? If you don't figure it in, the starting bid was too high. If you do, it was way too low.
Also, the seller has apparently declined to simply give you back a portion of your winning bid, which would be the easiest, fastest way to make things right.
This implies to me that all may not be right here. Did the seller say when he would make it good. A few days have now passed. . .
Good luck to you; hope it works out.
redneck and FE never have made much profit, never intended to until I saw this auction, mostly have bought and lost, so let the authorities try to say I'm in it for profit. Just loved guns and when I had some money I bought and when I needed some I sold. I sold some I wish I hadn't and kept some I should have never bought and should have sold. Quite a few I either gave away to family or friends or sold so they could afford. A dealer, never was or will be. Now due to health issues and retirement I sold all but 6 off and that's it. GetmeouttaCT time will tell if this gentleman comes through and I believe he will. I just need to be patient and wait. I truly believe he did not know. He was fooled as I was and I think he will make it up. If not, I will move on. Life's too short.
GetmeoutaCT
Member
Well said. Please let us know how it turns out.
Not trying to pile-on, but I gotta agree with GetmeoutaCT - you 'throw in' something to sweeten the deal, like selling a rifle and 'throwing in' some extra mags or ammo, or selling a scope and 'throwing in' rings or a mount. You don't 'throw in' something that's worth MORE than the item you're trying to sell unless you really know nothing about the value of the items you're selling. If he got it all in one package, he would have just advertised it all as one package, not that he was trying to sweeten a deal on a rifle by including a scope.
I'm of the opinion he well knew what he had, and was hoping the buyer wouldn't. But then again, I don't trust anyone anymore so I guess I'm just a cynic.
I'm of the opinion he well knew what he had, and was hoping the buyer wouldn't. But then again, I don't trust anyone anymore so I guess I'm just a cynic.
No, no piling on taken. Everyone's opinion respected. I had thought of the "throw in" aspect also and exchanged several e-mails before bidding. The guy asked for me to give him some time and he'd make it right, so I will and we'll see. Never know.
GetmeoutaCT
Member
Well, the story is this - I've lived in CT my whole life. It's gotten harder and harder to stay, given the cost of living and the politics. For a long time, there seemed to be just enough "old yankee" DNA left here to hold off the worst excesses of the entrenched Democrat power structure.
That changed with Newtown. We got what I feared - a strong anti-gun law, although admittedly not as bad as New York's. I joined this forum in the aftermath of that. I was thinking of a screen name. Chose one that pretty much said what I felt at the time. I've thought about changing it (it is a bit odd) but to the extent folks know me, I'd rather not start over.
About the only thing keeping me here now is the need to keep my earning power high enough to pay off the tuition fairy. My time horizon is five years or less, at which time I plan to hightail it to warmer, friendlier climes.
That changed with Newtown. We got what I feared - a strong anti-gun law, although admittedly not as bad as New York's. I joined this forum in the aftermath of that. I was thinking of a screen name. Chose one that pretty much said what I felt at the time. I've thought about changing it (it is a bit odd) but to the extent folks know me, I'd rather not start over.
About the only thing keeping me here now is the need to keep my earning power high enough to pay off the tuition fairy. My time horizon is five years or less, at which time I plan to hightail it to warmer, friendlier climes.
G.outCT, thought it might be that. I have moved quite bit in my 62 yrs. so when ur ready go explore and find a climate, environment and political, that suits you. The beauty of freedom in US. TX is sure gun friendly and jobs aren't scarce right now, but dropping oil prices might slow the oil patch here and affect all other jobs. But still good luck and hope all falls into place.
GetmeoutaCT
Member
Thanks, Suprane - I'll be 59 in a few months. Hope it all falls into place but as you've noted in this thread, you can't get too upset about how things work out in life. I've been luckier than most, no matter what happens from here on out.
Great attitude. I am sure it will all fall into place. I was in Anesthesia for 38 years and finally said enough and just go real slow now. I gave my all and left nothing on the table. Work country hospitals for all but 5 years. Never made much until last two years, just enjoyed helping out people, but the years and stress took a toll and I said " I believe I will call it a day." I see where you put up a question about which scope, I am about to also. I was going to spend some of the money I got for selling guns on a NF compact, even had it ordered, but it's on back order and as I thought about it, I said I just don't need to spend that on our nowdays budget. So we'll see.
RainDodger
Member
Yeah... a buddy of mine just bought an ACOG off of AMAZON. Fake. Sent it back and thank the gun gods that it came from Amazon and it's easy to return stuff there.
rcmodel said:
Figured I'd add this for Aimpoint's as well:
http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/counterfeitscopies/16-tips/
note item #5 in their list.
dubbleA
Member
The OP is probably still waiting on the German scope to replace the Leupold MK IV.
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