Lever action rifle - which one to buy?
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wally
Member
Yup, I've got one from the 80's very slick and accurate, works great with .38 Special and .357 Mag. I had no trouble busting 1 gallon water filled milk jugs with mine at 200 yards (when I was young and could see the front sight
)I've a Rossi in .44Mag and its a great shooter, but I've heard of the Rossi .357 having issues with .38Special, if this matters to you. I've never tried .44 Special in ine since I don't have anything in this caliber and thus no source of brass for it.
Crunchy Frog
Member
In the "for what it's worth" category, pistol caliber lever rifles are what we use in cowboy action shooting and .38/.357 is the most popular chambering. Cowboy shooters put a lot of rounds through the rifles. Reliable and smooth operation is the key.
At any major match the top shooters overwhelmingly favor the Uberti replicas of the 1873 and 1866 Winchesters. This is because the action is very simple and can be made to run very smoothly. Many of these rifles are "short stroked" which shortens the lever travel.
The Ubertis are about $1000 to $1100 new so it's obviously more expensive than either the '92 or the Marlin but they are really nice. If you keep an eye open and have a bit of luck, you might find a used one at a good price.
At any major match the top shooters overwhelmingly favor the Uberti replicas of the 1873 and 1866 Winchesters. This is because the action is very simple and can be made to run very smoothly. Many of these rifles are "short stroked" which shortens the lever travel.
The Ubertis are about $1000 to $1100 new so it's obviously more expensive than either the '92 or the Marlin but they are really nice. If you keep an eye open and have a bit of luck, you might find a used one at a good price.
gandog56
Member
I only have one Winchester lever action, and it's a RARITY! One chambered for 7.62X54R.
BCRider
Member
The thing about the Rossi is that even if you get one which is a little rough feeling a smith that does a lot of cowboy action gun work can slick them up to work superbly for a low cost. You're not looking at making it so loose that it's suitable for CAS events, just to go through the action and smoothen and de'burr and replace the main and ejector springs with the commonly available kit to lighten and smoothen the action and trigger pull. I'd be willing to bet that the total bill to do this would be under $100 for a "lick and a promise" version of the full meal deal.
Having said this the Rossi in .357Mag that I got three years ago was smooth, if a trifle stiff, right out of the box. It's gotten better with my work at slicking it up for my cowboy action shooting but it would have been a fine plinker or small game hunter right out of the box other than the stock rear sight.
Speaking of the sight I ended up opening the small center notch down to a more or less sideways "C" shape to get the gun to shoot to POA for the closer in distances used in CAS. As delivered the sights could not be set low enough. But that was the only issue I had with the rifle.
Having said this the Rossi in .357Mag that I got three years ago was smooth, if a trifle stiff, right out of the box. It's gotten better with my work at slicking it up for my cowboy action shooting but it would have been a fine plinker or small game hunter right out of the box other than the stock rear sight.
Speaking of the sight I ended up opening the small center notch down to a more or less sideways "C" shape to get the gun to shoot to POA for the closer in distances used in CAS. As delivered the sights could not be set low enough. But that was the only issue I had with the rifle.
AKElroy
Member
Based on current quality, I would reconsider used. They are typically shot very little, and condition is pretty straight forward to gauge. Look for a clean, bright bore, and an original finish with honest but not excessive wear. My two favorites are a Winchester 94 made in 1974, and a practically new marlin manufactured in 1973. Both are far better than their new counterparts IMO. Cheaper, too.
tahoe2
Member
my only experience is with Marlin's, all good from them, I have a 375 (336), and have had a 30-30, and shot a 1894 in .44 mag. All performed flawlessly, go with Marlin. Buy pre 1990.
Jaxondog
Member
I like Winchester's Trapper 357. Fun and accurate. Just personal prefference I guess. Any make would probably be a good shooter.
35 Whelen
Member
I bought a 20" Rossi for CAS. I've done TONS of work to it and am still piddling with it. I swear I've had it apart so many times I could do it in my sleep.
But after disassembling it and slicking it up it is very, very smooth. Problem is, after the first couple hundred rounds it didn't want to feed .38's. Not a big deal, I just assemble my .38's to .357 length. I've finally figured out it's a problem with the cartridge elevator. Still it's a trim, handy rifle.
If you get a Marlin, be aware that their older guns with Micro-Groove rifled barrels don't handle lead bullets very well. The newer models with Ballard type rifling are good to go though.
35W
But after disassembling it and slicking it up it is very, very smooth. Problem is, after the first couple hundred rounds it didn't want to feed .38's. Not a big deal, I just assemble my .38's to .357 length. I've finally figured out it's a problem with the cartridge elevator. Still it's a trim, handy rifle.
If you get a Marlin, be aware that their older guns with Micro-Groove rifled barrels don't handle lead bullets very well. The newer models with Ballard type rifling are good to go though.
35W
RPRNY
Member
With the greatest of respect to 35 Whelen, this internet myth has been conclusively debunked. Marlin's micro-groove rifling handles APPROPRIATELY SIZED cast bullets at least as well as traditionally cut rifling. The problem, and smoke from whence this internet myth arises, is with folks using undersized cast bullets which, while a problem with any rifling, is even more so with the micro-groove rifling which is somewhat prone to more rapid lead fouling than traditional cut rifling. In other words, it is myth based on some substance, but myth nevertheless. Cast bullets sized to groove depth will work as well in micro-groove rifling as in traditional cut rifling. Undersize cast bullets will not work well in Marlin micro-grove barrels.
35 Whelen
Member
My problems with the Micro-Groove rifling and cast bullets occurred long before the advent of the internet. I have an early '70's vintage 1895 in which I tried cast to no avail. I still have the .459" sizing die I purchased (again, before anyone on the internet told me to) that I was sure would solve all my problems. Even the 49th Edition Lyman manual advises to use only hard alloy and warns the keep velocities 1600 fps or less in Micro-Groove barrels.
I didn't intend to come across as flatly stating that Micro-Groove barrels would NOT work with lead. My point, obviously not well conveyed at 1:40 in the morning, rather, was that unlike rifles with standard rifling, Micro-Groove barreled rifles would likely take more work to find an alloy/bullet size/load combination that would perform acceptable. Conversely, for my Rossi 92r I assembled a random 38 Special load of 2.6 grs. of Clays and a soft cast (9.5 BHN) 160 gr. SWC out of an old H&G 4-cavity mould I've had for years. First load, first try, 1 1/2" groups at 50 yds.
If the OP doesn't handload and specifically if he wants to shoot lead bullets but doesn't cast his own, the Marlin is liable to be a disappointment as he'll have little to no control over bullet diameter and alloy of which the bullet is cast.
I really wanted to buy a Marlin to use for CAS but had to choose between an older model which I new would be of better quality, yet have Micro-Groove rifling, and a newer model (post-Remington production)which I've read over and over are of questionable quality yet have Ballard-type rifling instead of Micro-Groove (Hmm...wonder why they changed the rifling?
)To the OP, if you'll shoot nothing but jacketed bullets, go with a Marlin if for no other reason, they're a much easier rifle on which to mount a scope.
Good luck!
35W
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LeontheProfessional
Member
I would buy a Marlin. New or used they are all good guns. They may have had some issues when Remington first started making them, but it looks like they are all ironed out now. I own one and know several guys that just bought some. All great rifles!
MrDig
Member
You have three choices
A Marlin, A Marlin or oh yeah a Marlin, Don't let anyone kid you the used Marlins and dare I say it even the current production Remlins (QC standards are returning) are great lever guns and IMHO the only ones to own.
Can you tel I like Marlins?
A Marlin, A Marlin or oh yeah a Marlin, Don't let anyone kid you the used Marlins and dare I say it even the current production Remlins (QC standards are returning) are great lever guns and IMHO the only ones to own.
Can you tel I like Marlins?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
There are a lot of great leverguns on the market and Marlin makes but a fraction of them. If you like traditional guns, the Uberti 1873's are available in myriad configurations and they exhibit much better fit & finish than any Marlin. Same for the Italian replicas of the Winchester 1892. Which is a better, stronger, more refined design than the Marlin 1894. Then there are still lots of Winchester 94's on the market as well. The Rossi's are excellent rifles for their modest prices. Then there are Browning B92's and the various modern Winchester 1892's made by Miroku. These are some of the finest leverguns ever produced.....anywhere.
I have a Marlin 1894CSS in 357 and it is a dream to shoot and functions flawlessly. I did a lot of research on lever actions prior to making my choice. The Marlin is tough to beat, which is one of the reasons why they can be hard to find.
For me, I wanted a general purpose rifle that can be used to plink with mainly and take game up to the size of NE Whitetails. The rifle had to be easy to pack in the field and easy to maintain. I found it in the Marlin 1894CSS in 357. Cheap to shoot 38 reloads, and can go from mild to wild. It is a very versatile rifle/cartridge combination.
For me, this also meant that the action needs to be strong enough to handle the 180 grain barnstormers in 357. Not a steady diet, but enough to sight in and get the job done. The Marlin action is more than capable.
If you reload, with many of these lever actions, just don't reload the near max cases with heavy loads repeatedly. Many of these lever actions lock up in the rear, so there is some flex in the cartridge case that can weaken it if you are shooting heavy loads in the same cases in these actions repeatedly. Reference the Speer Manual. This is not a major issue, but worth noting.
If you are shooting fast and furious, like in Cowboy Action, then the Italian replicas are a good choice. Some of these actions are not a good choice for heavy loads, unless you go with the 1892 or 1894 actions. 1873 or 1866 actions are not up to that task.
Hope you find a good one, you will certainly enjoy it.
For me, I wanted a general purpose rifle that can be used to plink with mainly and take game up to the size of NE Whitetails. The rifle had to be easy to pack in the field and easy to maintain. I found it in the Marlin 1894CSS in 357. Cheap to shoot 38 reloads, and can go from mild to wild. It is a very versatile rifle/cartridge combination.
For me, this also meant that the action needs to be strong enough to handle the 180 grain barnstormers in 357. Not a steady diet, but enough to sight in and get the job done. The Marlin action is more than capable.
If you reload, with many of these lever actions, just don't reload the near max cases with heavy loads repeatedly. Many of these lever actions lock up in the rear, so there is some flex in the cartridge case that can weaken it if you are shooting heavy loads in the same cases in these actions repeatedly. Reference the Speer Manual. This is not a major issue, but worth noting.
If you are shooting fast and furious, like in Cowboy Action, then the Italian replicas are a good choice. Some of these actions are not a good choice for heavy loads, unless you go with the 1892 or 1894 actions. 1873 or 1866 actions are not up to that task.
Hope you find a good one, you will certainly enjoy it.
I have emailed Steve Gunz and I might get one of his guns (Rossi 1892)he has already worked on and is ready to go. It is more than I was wanting to spend but if I can get one I know will be good to go from the start rather than something that is ok and then I have to do some work on it I would rather go that way. I still do not want to buy used as I do not know if I would be getting a good gun or a mess. I would only buy used if I could taouch and feel it first and that is pretty hard with the on line gun sites. I still might take a look at some of the new Marlins as my local Fleet Farm has the Marlin in the 44 in stock. At least I can get a feel for wehter or not it is descent quality. Thanks for everyones responses so far.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Look at it like this, there are plain few (read: nearly zero) guns that come across the counter these days with a good trigger. The days of factory 3lb triggers are long gone. Leverguns, in particular, also suffer from action roughness. No matter who made it. So the long term benefit of buying a rifle that has already been tuned, not having to wait (as long) and pay shipping, is pretty substantial. Not only do you get a slick action but also a crisp, light trigger. You can also take the opportunity to have other work done, like installing a good peep sight or removing a goofy bolt safety.
Thanks for the reply Craig. Yes the gun I am looking at getting from Steve does have the better peep site and also the goofy bolt safety removed. I am leaning that way but am waiting to hear back from him on the deal and then go from there. I agree I would rather get a gun that is right from the start and not have to worry about it as I am not too confident in my abilities to do those things myself. I could do it but it is much better to have someone who does it all day every day get it right rather than me hoping I get it right.
Quoheleth
Member
A Rossi is on my short list. I decided when I do buy, it will be a Davidson's gun with the lifetime guarantee. If it breaks or doesn't run, send it to them for a replacement - no jacking with Taurus.
My 2 cents...
Q
My 2 cents...
Q
AJMBLAZER
Member
I want a .357 levergun soooo bad it makes me drool sometimes. I was in Bud's storefront a while back and they had a nice blued 16" Rossi .357 in there. Holy crap was that thing handy sized. Handled and swung like most .22LR rifles. I was drooling.
I've talked with Steve from Stevezgunz a few times and that's strongly on my list. I've seen too many reports of Marlin's current issues (hell, the forum devoted to them had to open a subforum specifically for complaints about the newer ones due to the volume!) to trust the new ones for the higher price. Meanwhile finding an older Marlin, Winchester, Browning, or whatever in .357 in a configuration I'd like would be hard and I've never seen one for $375 like someone else did. Excellent score.
I've hit all the gun stores in Lexington (there's quite a few - including Bud's and several that deal in old and traditional style guns) regularly and have seen two .357 levers since I moved here 3 years ago. One new Marlin for around $700 and that blued Rossi for $400 or so. Not to mention I could order a stainless Rossi in 16" or 20" from Bud's and have it in a week or so. Similarly I could order a custom gun from Steve in the configuration I want with his tricks for less than I can get a new Marlin for that may well have issues.
I don't own one and haven't even shot one...but man, those Rossi's handle nice.
I've talked with Steve from Stevezgunz a few times and that's strongly on my list. I've seen too many reports of Marlin's current issues (hell, the forum devoted to them had to open a subforum specifically for complaints about the newer ones due to the volume!) to trust the new ones for the higher price. Meanwhile finding an older Marlin, Winchester, Browning, or whatever in .357 in a configuration I'd like would be hard and I've never seen one for $375 like someone else did. Excellent score.
I've hit all the gun stores in Lexington (there's quite a few - including Bud's and several that deal in old and traditional style guns) regularly and have seen two .357 levers since I moved here 3 years ago. One new Marlin for around $700 and that blued Rossi for $400 or so. Not to mention I could order a stainless Rossi in 16" or 20" from Bud's and have it in a week or so. Similarly I could order a custom gun from Steve in the configuration I want with his tricks for less than I can get a new Marlin for that may well have issues.
I don't own one and haven't even shot one...but man, those Rossi's handle nice.
The new Winchester (Miroku mfg) 1892's are very nice, but on the spendy side. If you want new in the less expensive range, a Rossi would be the way to go. The wood stocks are pretty cheesy, but the fit and finish is better than the new Marlins I have seen come through the shop.
35 Whelen
Member
I have to say, a couple of years ago I bought a Mini-14 for a utility rifle here at the house figuring I'd carry it around the place with me doing chores, etc.
Enter the Rossi. Although I bought it for CAS, I keep it in the gun rack with the Mini-14 in the mud room. Guess what? Every time I run down back to feed the heifers, or gather eggs, check the pond, run to town, the Rossi is the rifle that's in my hands. I keep the magazine stoked with 10 rounds of .357 loaded with a home cast SWC at a little over 1700 fps. If I just want to plink, I grab a box of the 160 gr. SWC's loaded down to 835 fps. I LOVE the little rifle...handy beyond words.
35W
Enter the Rossi. Although I bought it for CAS, I keep it in the gun rack with the Mini-14 in the mud room. Guess what? Every time I run down back to feed the heifers, or gather eggs, check the pond, run to town, the Rossi is the rifle that's in my hands. I keep the magazine stoked with 10 rounds of .357 loaded with a home cast SWC at a little over 1700 fps. If I just want to plink, I grab a box of the 160 gr. SWC's loaded down to 835 fps. I LOVE the little rifle...handy beyond words.
35W
BCRider
Member
The Rossi 16 inch barrel version only holds 9 rounds of .357 in the tube but it's just that much lighter and more compact. The mag capacity may be a problem for CAS but for a truck or farm gun it would simply be superb.
Well I have been talking with Steve Young and it looks like I might be getting one of his Rossi 92's with all the work done to it. It is more expensive but I know I am getting something that will work right out of the box. That is something I am looking for. The only thing that would keep me from getting it would be if I get a 30-30 lever action that I possibly could get a really good deal on. Not what I was looking for but for the price it might be too hard to pass up and then I would not need another lever action, at least for a while. Thanks for everyones responses.
Thanks for everyones responses.- Status
