Lever-action vs. 7400 vs. BAR?

[Drjones]

Hi all.

Still trying to decide on a rifle.

For "general purpose" use, including the possible "social situation."

I'm quite enamored with the Marlin 336 Stainless in 30-30.

However, I think a semi may be preferable for several reasons.

SO, I'm looking at the Remington 7400 and Browning BAR.

Probably 30-06 or .308.

Questions:

-I've done a search and read lots of threads on the 7400. I'm scared. It seems to be VERY finicky, especially about having the chamber clean. This could be a huge problem if my life was depending on this thing.

-Are these CA-legal?

-Read that the 7400 had a very nasty habit of ripping the rim right off the spent case, extracting the rim, but leaving the case in the chamber. Read some threads that hint that that was a problem with older guns. Is that fixed now???

-Read some comments that its a "cheap" feeling/looking rifle. Is that true? I won't even consider it if so....(I know, I know...I'll go look for myself one day soon...)

Pros/cons of a lever-action vs. semi in a "social-type" situation?

Any other help you could give is much appreciated.

 

[Art Eatman]

I have a 742K in '06. It doesn't seem to have nasty habits of any sort. The 7400 is supposed to be better. I dunno. Ripping the rim off a case head would seem to me to be more of a problem with neck-sizing-only reloads, but I've not had that problem.

You might look around for one of those Browning lever actions in .308. They're full strength on account of the turn-bolt design, and quite accurate. Magazine fed, so pointy bullets ain't a problem.

I like everything about the BAR except the weight. The action is long and heavy, but they're great shooters. My pet bolt action is just as heavy, but it doesn't seem as awkward. Balances better, I guess. Dunno.

As far as "social", I think that personal skill with whatever medium centerfire you have oughta work. I'm real dubious that any anti-social group is gonna advance into even one or two shots that hit.

Without reading the specifics of the law, it seems that if it ain't black and para-military, in California it's legal.

Art

 

[Ed]

I too have heard all the rumors about the 742. My dad and brother in law bot hunt with them and shoot them and have NEVER had a problem. Man if I believed what some people say I would burn it as firewood. The only thing that I have heard that I am halfway prone to believe is that some of the parts, after thousands of rounds wear out, duh, and that Remington doesn't make them anymore. The 7400 replaced it and should have this fixed. The 742 is heavy and I don't know if the 7400 is lighter. Oh well. Browning is a great gun too. Sorry to ramble so much.

 

[cheygriz]

The 7400/742 are excellent, well made rifles.

However, the Browning BAR MKll is head and shoulders above it.

My BAR in .338 WinMag recoils like a .308, is as accurate as any out of the box bolt gun, and has been 100 percent reliable.

The Browning BAR MKll is the "Rolls Royce' of hunting rifles.

 

[Bottom Gun]

My 742 carbine in 30-06 has never given me a bit of trouble. It's an accurate reliable rifle.

 

[WYO]

I really don't see how a low capacity semi-automatic hunting rifle is going to be an advantage over a lever action in a so-called social situation. If you want to hunt, get the rifle that meets the criteria for the distance and animal that you will be hunting. If you want a handy rifle for dinking around in the woods, get the lever.

 

[Peter Gun]

I was trying to make the same descision between the BAR and the 7400. I have nothing against remingtons and the 7400 seems to be a decent gun, but I found a shop w/ both and there is no comparison. If you put the two together, the 7400 feels cheap and clunky w/ mediocre trigger. The BAR is beautiful and smooth w/ a great trigger. I dont think it will be hard for you to make the decision if you handle them. BTW, I aslo found this to be the case when comparing Winchester and Browning lever actions.HTH.

 

[Marshall]

From cheygriz

However, the Browning BAR MKll is head and shoulders above it.

My BAR in .338 WinMag recoils like a .308, is as accurate as any out of the box bolt gun, and has been 100 percent reliable.

The Browning BAR MKll is the "Rolls Royce' of hunting rifles.

DITTO!

I suggest the BAR Safari with BOSS if you go Semi-Auto.

 

[six 4 sure]

Although my experience is limited I'll add it FWIW. Of all the guns you mentioned I've only shot the BAR. It was a friends and it was a .300 Win Mag. That might be a little more than you want for a"general purpose" rifle, although I believe they can be had in smaller calibers. If you decide to go this route, I pop for the extra money and get the BOSS system. It's a lot louder to shoot, but doesn't kick near as much.

As far as the lever-gun is conserned, there have been several threads lately discussing the 30-30 for "social situations". You might want to check them out if you haven't already. I have a couple of Win 94's in 30-30 and love them. They're fun to shoot, and the ammo is pretty cheap, and can be found everywhere.

Hope this helps.

Six

 

[BusMaster007]

Of the three rifles you mentioned, and having one of each myself, I can tell you for sure that the BAR is by far the smoothest and nicest and best shooting.

Choosing one BAR would be tough. Mine is a '95 BOSS model in 7mm Rem.Mag. and the 'engraved' shiny finish.

If I were to get another today, I'd get the Stalker.
Which caliber? Wow. Tough choice.

You're looking at the .308 or .30-06, both of which aren't offered with the BOSS, only open sights.

With the BOSS option, I'd go for the .300 Win.Mag. to get the most versatility out of the rifle.
All matte black. Tunable. Softer recoil than a bolt-action. SMOOTH.
If you really wanted a no-fuss operation, get a NIKON or Leupold fixed power 6x scope for it...Leupold even has a 'Tactical' 6x.
The gun wouldn't be exactly lightweight, but it'd be a hulluva gun!

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=002B&cat_id=031&type_id=008

 

[Marshall]

BAR SAFARI WITH BOSS IN .308

Item Number 031001118


Caliber / Gauge 308 Win.


Magazine Capacity 5


Barrel Length 22


Nominal Overall Length 43.00


Nominal Length of Pull 13.75


Nominal Drop at Comb 0.75


Nominal Drop at Heel 1.13


Nominal Weight 7.56


Rate of Twist One Turn in 12


Chokes Included **N/A**


Chamber Size


Site Radius 17.5


Rib Width


Metal Finish


Wood Finish Gloss Finish


Stock / Grip


Additional Description Open Sights


U.S. Suggested Retail $850

 

[BusMaster007]

Guys, I went back and checked that BAR section.
I don't find a .308 with the BOSS option in any configuration.
.30-06, yes. .308, no.

Look again at the description above:

Item Number 031001118

Caliber / Gauge 308 Win.

Wood Finish Gloss Finish

Additional Description Open Sights

If the BAR Stalker were available in .308 w/BOSS, I'd be the first in line, but, I don't see it there.
Custom order, maybe?

 

[Soap]

Doesn't the 7400 have a really silly manual of arms?

 

[Drjones]

Doesn't the 7400 have a really silly manual of arms?

That's what I've read.

Could anyone elaborate and confirm?

 

[biere]

If you get a leveraction you will learn to either roll the gun sideways to work the action or to lift the rifle up or something.

That is my complaint with a lever action.

I have no experience with the other two rifles mentioned, but I can tell you I get annoyed after using a semi-auto for a while and then trying to use a lever action off a rest.

 

[Soap]

Drjones- I remember now, Nightcrawler posted about this on TFL. I think that it had something to do with what you can, and cannot do with or without the mag in place. Or removing the mag...

I would just ask Nightcrawler.

 

[Marshall]

BusMaster007,

The BAR info posted here is correct exactly as it shows. The Safari I posted is available in 308 with BOSS. Open sights are not availablable on any BOSS equipped Browning. The Stalker is not available in 308, just as you said. My post was not contadicting yours, simply showing the BAR is available in 308 with the Safari model, which is why I suggested it in the first place. Also, I don't remember the original question specifying the need for a black plastic stock?

 

[The Mighty Beagle]

Word on the 742/7400 series is that they aren't made for a lot of shooting. If you do shoot it a lot, eventually the chamber may wear out, causing cases to stick in there instead of being ejected correctly.

My dad and brother both hunt with 742's, and they both told me NOT to buy one last season. My dad's, after 20 years of hunting but not ever being shot much, suddenly developed the rim-ripping-off problem so often heard about. I think he finally had to re-barrel it to get it to work again.

 

[BusMaster007]

Marshall:

I appreciate your reply. BLACK RIFLES are my favorite, with few exceptions...

I found some more interesting links and photos to check into in the interest of passing on the information to those that might like to have it.

There are some Brownings available with both the BOSS and OPEN SIGHTS, although in the USA, one would have to jump through some hoops to get them, in this case the BAR.

The A-Bolt Stainless Stalker was available this way at one time, and may still be, in .375 H&H.
The USA version of the internet catalog shows the rifle comes with both, as far as I can tell, by describing it as a BOSS equipped gun with the 'additional information' listing (open sights)...
A note to Browning may confirm this.
I found an old picture I had of a Wood & Blue A-Bolt with both.

From the USA catalog, A-Bolt Stainless Stalker:

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=001B&cat_id=035&type_id=008

From the Browning International Catalog-

http://www.browningint.com/Products/Firearms/BAR/BARGB.html
BAR:

At any rate, there's more to look at, and I didn't make it up!
Thanks for checking it out.
(edited - had to retry the links and re-do the picture)

 

[thumbtack]

I have a 742 that my father gave me. I have put at least 1000 rounds or more through it over the last five years and I have not had one problem with it.

CDNN Investment has 12 round steel mags and 10 rounds plastic mags for the 742 and 7400 for $9.99.

If you go with the 7400, I would think that this rifle and several 12 rounds mags could handle any social situation that could arise.

 

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Re: Really silly manual of arms, 7400 and BAR.

Having one of each, I have some familiarity, but only as far as what I haven't done, meaning getting the bolts out of either gun. I just might not know some obvious trick, but If I can't figure it out after fiddling the gun down to a pile of parts, it isn't easy. Who ever heard of a gun you can't easily get the bolt out of? This is their primary issue with me in terms of their utility vs a military design.

About the 7400:

Getting the bolt out of a 7400 involves dismounting the barrel, requiring a barrel wrench, and perhaps a reciever fixture. I don't have either, and I haven'y got it out otherwise. Having reviewed the manual out at the Remington site, their instructions for cleaning and lubrication DO NOT MENTION OR SHOW THE BOLT AT ALL. Clean the chamber through the ejection port. Dismount the fore-end to clean the gas system from the outside. Pull the trigger group to clean and lube it. That's it. Dismounting the barrel requires an octagon-shaped wrench, by the look of it. The directions don't mention anything about it. Just an exhortation to "Send your gun in for regular service." It just seems a bit odd to me that here is a gun that a gunowner is discouraged from performing what I think of as basic maintenance. Guns aren't built like that, usually.

About the BAR:

Getting the bolt out of a BAR involves dismounting the buttstock. My buttstock has a nicely-finished glued-on recoil pad, that I am reluctant to tear at on an as-new gun. Upon review of the owners manual on the Browning site, it simply states that the trigger group will seldom require removing for cleaning, and DO NOT remove the bolt. Send it to the factory for major servicing. These commercial gun designs. I find it odd that here is a gun that's NOT user friendly. In my experience, which is mostly based on tinkering with old military guns, designing 'em to come apart is a neccessary step. Gas guns get dirty!

In my experience, cleaning these things generally involves a lot of sloshing and scrubbing to clean the bolt and it's environs. I suppose that'd work, it just seems half-baked to me, where-as military guns strip down so you can CLEAN 'em, thus removing doubt.

Garands come completely apart. M-1 Carbines do too. Mini-14's. Even my old Remington long-recoil Model-81's strip down to their last little part. The M-81's are pretty complicated as far as guns go, but they only go together one way.

I guess I just find it strange that the two most readily available non-military autoloaders should have a bolt and receiver set-up that more or less has a "No user servicable parts inside" sign on it. I expect guns to be straitforward machines, with relatively decipherable mechanisms. All the rest of the guns are, in my experience.

My whining aside, these guns DO function well, and reliably but are more sensitive to dirt. All that means is that they might not be suitable for trench warfare. One does not generally hunt in muddy trenches.

 

[JohnBT]

I like the BAR. I'll probably buy my uncle's early Belgian .30-06 just because. He's never had any trouble with it and keeping it clean hasn't been a problem. My father had a perfectly fine .280 Rem., but sold it when he quit deer hunting because he knew I wanted my uncle's and didn't want two of them.

Having said all that, I still trust a lever more and they're a whole lot handier.

John

 

[4Truck]

Gonna cast the vote for the BAR, I have one in .270 and have been very pleased, I used to have a 742 in 30-06 and it was nowhere near the rifle the BAR is

 

[longeyes]

I went down the same path you did, apparently. Bought a Marlin 336, .30-30, and put ghost-ring sights on it. Followed that up with a Mini-14. Sociability defined!

(I'm in SoCal.)

 

[Sarge111]

Autos & lever actions

We've had several used & well-used 740's & 742's over the years. When the extractor goes, you got problems. Takedown is a pain and parts are getting harder and harder to come by. I won't be buying any more 740-42's for this reason alone.

We currently own a 7400 in .30-06, which has digested literally hundreds of rounds of IMR-powder reloads and given no reliability problems whatsoever. It is as accurate as any bolt action in the house with identical ammunition. I would buy another of these in a heartbeat, given the right opportunity. This one has the wood stock and wears Williams Guides with a fine bead up front. If you like iron sights, I'd stay away from the Wal-Mart synthetic version. The comb seems ridiculously high and neither myself or my 16 year-old son could get our cheek down on the stock far enough to acquire the issue sights.

BAR's and indeed the cream of the crop where autos are concerned; I have shot them in .300 and .338 and they were fine, accurate and easy-shooting rifles. I am told they are quite reliable as well but have not owned one and cannot therefore offer a first-hand opinion based on extensive personal use with reloads, etc., like I can with the 7400. I do know several people who shoot the BAR regularly and they have no complaints.

My experience with Marlin and Winchester .30-30 lever actions has convinced me that the Winchester is an infinitely better choice. The Marlin is much easier to jam, and much harder to clear by virtue of it's closed receiver top. This makes a difference especially if you're buying a gun for a young'un to hunt with. Any accuracy difference between the brands is inconsequential for hunting applications, and the newer Winchesters are as easy to scope as a Marlin, if that's your bag.

I still prefer aperture sights on hunting rifles and would take a pre-safety Winchester to any Marlin in similar calibers.

Hope this helps-