Lever Carbine: .357 vs. .44, pigs and deer

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

ArmedBear

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
23,171
Any opinions?

In Southern California, will a .357 lever gun serve as a hunting gun?

I have a knockaround SAA in .357, and it would be nice if the guns could match. But do I really want a .44 for pigs and deer, or is a hot .357 (e.g. Buffalo Bore 158 Grain) plenty?
 
The .357 was designed as a police round. The .44 magnum was designed as a hunting round.

The .357 will take pigs and deer, but the .44 magnum is superior. I would get the .44 rifle.
 
Well, the thing is, if I'm going to get a .44, I might as well get a .30-30.

Perhaps that's what I should do.
 
To me, it's a two-fold skill-level thing. First is the shooting skill under stress; next is the ability to get within range for the cartridge. The first generally comes much easier than the second. :)

A buddy of mine has the head of a 200-pound boar mounted for display in his office. I'd guess three-inch tusks. He was stalking around in the cactus and mesquite brush in south Texas near Freer, and got fairly close. Killed it with a 6" .357 revolver of some sort.

I won't argue against "more is better", but it's one's skill that makes the difference.

Art
 
Perhaps I should clarify:

I have a .30-06 with a 24" barrel and a good scope. I am not looking at a .357 lever gun to take long shots with.

I would use Buffalo Bore or equivalent handloads, something like 2150 fps, 158 grains, for hunting, at iron sight range only.

I guess I'm asking if this is really viable, since I'd love to have the carbine for plinking, dabbling in CAS, etc. Marlin's 1894 is nice and compact, and shoots cheapo .38 Special, too. Part of the problem is that I haven't hunted pig here, so I'm not entirely sure what I'll be up against (brush, distance, game weight, etc.).

Thanks for the responses!
 
I'd get a 35 cal lever. Then you can shoot it with lighter bullets or shoot the 35 regular. With the new pointed tip rubber stuff on the tip, they are ok for tube mag.

HQ:)
 
I would use Buffalo Bore or equivalent handloads, something like 2150 fps, 158 grains, for hunting, at iron sight range only.
Click to expand...
You already pretty much have a .30-30. Guys get all torqued up about caliber (.308 vs 30-06) comes to mind. Seems like a 158 at 2150 should work the same regardless of the caliber.
 
A .44

carbine and a hand gun as well. It is a very versatile round. The two guns can share ammo. I have a Rossi carbine in .44 and a couple .44 pistols, one SA, one DA. They are pushing me into reloading.
Good luck.
 
They are pushing me into reloading.
Click to expand...

Aye, there's the rub.:)

I already have a shotshell reloader on a shelf in the living room. I'm not sure where the heck I'd put a press for brass.

This city is nice, but residential real estate runs $450 per sq ft around here.
 
From what I can tell a 357mag in a rifle will match or beat and 357 max in a Contender.A few years ago I shot a medium sized buck at about 75 yards with a Maxi using 180 grain full profile jacketed bullets cant remember the speed they were going. The deer went strait to the ground with both front shoulders broke.The lungs had been turned to jelly.All this from one shot.The next year I did the same thing with a Ruger 94 in 44 mag. I cant say either would be better.




one shot one kill
 
Starter52

You mention.
The .357 was designed as a police round. The .44 magnum was designed as a hunting round.

The .357 will take pigs and deer, but the .44 magnum is superior. I would get the .44 rifle


HQ mentions,
I disagree with your assement of the 357. being only designed for police work.
Major D. B. Wesson of S&W was into it big time. Never really caught on for Law EO to powerful and went to the hunting crowd. 45 cal beat out the 357 for that work and then it was a Semi auto, which helped.

It is very popular and If that is what you want to use, do it. It will pickup some fps in a rifle. I believe you are on the right path.

Not much room, buy the lever in the 357 and enjoy. But I still would go for the 35 R if it was me.
Pretty good out to 150yds. It does not have the Traj. neither does the 357.

But it has beef, as in heavier bullet, etc. it is a rifle Cartridge.

HQ:)
 
First off, the .357 from a carbine is about 4 times stronger than from a carbine than from a revolver. One thing that you need to remember is that you SHOULD hunt with a .357 with a 6" barrel...

Anyway, it is as much a function (as ART said) of the shot, distance and what not. With a head shot, no worries. A shoulder shot at over 125 yard on a Hog with a .357 should not be taken. But then again, I would not do it with a .44 either.

See the problem? it is a function of accuracy. it HAS NEVER been a function of KNOCK down power. People hunt white tail deer with a 7mm because they are bad shots....

Put it to you this way, in the 19th century the .44-40 was a big round in handguns and rifles. The saying was that the .44-40 has "..killed more game LARGE and SMALL and more men GOOD and BAD than any other round."

I would take it to the bank that a .44-40 was used to hunt grizzly. A .44-40 would give ballistics a lot like a .44 special (the .357 mag would edge it out in penetration).

Confidence in the caliber and in your weapon; that is what puts meat on the table.
 
Yes the 44 mag is superior to the 357 mag in a rifle. And the 30-30 is superior to the 44 mag and the 30-06 over the 30-30. I’ve taken my last two dear with a Marlin 1894C in 357 loaded with Hornady 158 grain XTP for one deer and a 180 hard cast WFNGC on the other deer. The WFNGC shot clean through and would be excellent on pigs. Neither deer took more than a dozen steps then collapsed. Out to 75-100 yards the 357 mag in a rifle will kill a deer or pig stone dead as long as you do your part.

BTW, the little Marlin with 158 grain Hornady's is printing slightly less than 2 inches at 100 yards which is what I have it sighted in for.
 
According to Cartridges of the World (7th edition) by Frank Barnes a .357 magnum round coming from a revolver delivers (at the higher end) apporx. 550 ME. Coming from a rifle it delivers (at the higher end) 1,600 ME. Buffalo Bore or CorBon, I reckon get get higher, almost 2,000ME, but I have seen no figures on this. Considering they say that it equals a 30-30, I can only approximate what the ME would be.

By my math that is a 3 times higher and if the Corbon / Buffalo Bore numbers are correct, that would be 4 times higher. So, that is what we call close enough for government work...

:neener:
 
You want the 357, I'd get it! Try to keep your shots under 100 yds. I am itching to buy the Malin 1894 in 41 mag for some of the same reasons you cite. Ammunition cost will be substantially more than the 357 though.
 
Well if that is true

Considering the bullet weight and all.:uhoh:

I would say if you want a 357 and are shooting the same out of a hand gun? I am not going to go there, with all the information that is being floated. :rolleyes:

But if it can do that just because of a longer barrel, and nothing else.
I would say you can interchange, but I doubt it.:what:

My edition of Cartridges of the world, 9th.
Says special loads for the rifle only not the handgun combination. So I would not take the chance and intermix accidently. Go with what you want. But beware you are playing with your handguns life.

HQ:)
 
Aside from the hyperbole, have you gotten a .357 Mag rifle yet?

The .357 Mag in the Marlin is the same as the Max in the 10" Contender. It will kill deer, hogs, etc. Great for the lower 48 (in most instances). We shot hogs in the Jolon, CA area with a .44 Mag Marlin and it works well. Maybe a little "better" maybe not. Depends on how precise you are, but you still have to place the bullet correctly.

In my .357 Mag carbine I can get 2000 fps with a 158 gr. and 1600 fps with the 180 gr. bullets.
 
I have not been able to handload and duplicate Buffalo Bore's claims for carbine performance even though my handloads are very close to theirs in 4 and 6" guns. I have not tried Buffalo Bore, but I'm a little skeptical of the claim being it's so far off my own loads out of my 20" Rossi M92 Carbine. I'm only getting something under 1900 fps for a hot 158 grain handload. They could, however, be shooting a lot slower burn powder or something and I ain't saying they're bogus, just that I have my doubts they can get that much more out of a factory load at acceptable pressures when their load performs the same as mine from handguns.

Anyway, I've killed one deer at about 80 yards with my carbine. Don't hunt with it much, just a fun gun I like a lot. It's very versatile with light .38s for small game and heavy loads for large. I think I'd rather shoot a big boar with the .44 mag and a 300 grain load, though. Big hogs can be hard to penetrate the shoulder plate on.

A .30-30 is, of course, superior to both regardless of Buffalo Bore's .357 performance just due to the fact that you can deliver more energy out farther with a better SD bullet, especially if you use Hornady's new Leverloution or whatever it's called load. With that ammo, it's a true 300 yard rifle on deer and 200 yards and in is no sweat. With either revolver caliber, you're lookin' at 100 yards max. For hogs in .30-30, you can also get the Nosler partition 170 grain, I believe in the Federal Premium loads. This is a superior penetrating bullet to the .44 mag IMHO.

Yeah, if you just want a lever gun of western style and the caliber doesn't matter much, go with the .30-30. I wanted my .357 because I also load for revolvers and share ammo. That and I wanted a close range woods gun for east Texas piney woods hunting at the time I got it. It is good for that.

Oh, 4 times? LOL! 25% more is more like it. I get 1520 fps/769 fpe from a 6.5" Blackhawk using my 158 grain cast/gas checked Lee SWC in front of 14.5 grains 2400. I get 1827 fps/1171 fpe out of my Rossi's 20 inch barrel, looked it up in my notes. Let's see, at 4 times, I should be getting 6080 fps out of the rifle? Nah, don't think so. LOL Or, if you're talking energy, well, 3076? GREAT FOR ELEPHANTS! :D Well, not quite, but it would outperform a 30-06. Better'n a .45-70 on big bears. These are loads fired over the same chronograph on the same day with the two guns.
 
Nice used 35 R in marlin 336 be my choice

I have said that before LOL.;)

Serious, forget the interchangablity, you loose out big time.:uhoh:

But a nice used rifle in 35 Remington, everything is off the shelf no reloading, nada.:what:

They kill deer and hogs and hmm may I say Elk:eek:

HQ:D
 
It's about shot placement

When the .357 was introduced, the president of S&W went on a north american safari. He took just about every type of game with it, including lower 48 brown bear. Tons of people take big white tails every deer season with 6" 357 wheel guns. A 16" carbine will give you a good bit of velosity over a 6" revolver. If you like the 357, than go with it. Get good with it. Because at iron sight, or woods distances, I doubt very seriouly if a deer or hog will know the difference if you do your part.
 
When the .357 was introduced, the president of S&W went on a north american safari. He took just about every type of game with it, including lower 48 brown bear. Tons of people take big white tails every deer season with 6" 357 wheel guns. A 16" carbine will give you a good bit of velosity over a 6" revolver. If you like the 357, than go with it. Get good with it. Because at iron sight, or woods distances, I doubt very seriouly if a deer or hog will know the difference if you do your part.
Click to expand...

I agree, but it should be noted that the factory .357 magnum loads of today aren't as hot as the "original recipe."
 
Jeez... Every one is a freaking critic.

mbt2001,:confused:

I think to be able to utilize the total advantage of the 357 in a carbine you should go with the powerful loads of the 357 for the carbine, but if you love your hand gun you will not do that. Pretty simple.:uhoh:

So in respect, for the animals, and yourself go for a rifle cartridge and pistol combo-nation.:what:

HQ:D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

N
  • Locked
44 Mag or 45LC Handgun for Deer?
Replies
14
Views
2K
Art Eatman
A
lobo9er
  • Locked
Best Rifle/Handgun caliber
2
Replies
31
Views
1K
MCgunner
M
C
  • Locked
Ballistics Questions .357 Magnum Vs. .223
Replies
5
Views
2K
36fan
3
B
  • Locked
357 max or 44 deer hunting
Replies
9
Views
1K
Art Eatman
A
T
  • Locked
.44 mag hunting ammo out of carbine
Replies
6
Views
908
T.R.
T
Back
Top