Lever gun, .30-30 vs. .44M
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inherentical
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I lean towards the .45-70 in a lever action for just this type of application, personally. Marlin Guide Guns come in stainless, and in my opinion the .45-70 is a decent short range load for deer, pig, and bear.
Not a hijack at all!
Different factors include:
.30-30 shoots flatter, .44 shoots a heavier bullet, but slower
Is flat shooting even an issue with iron sights? If you can't aim past 150 yards, who cares if your MPBR is 230?
What's REALLY more effective for hunting something tougher than dry country mulies, like pig or bear? 170@2200, or 240@1750?
Does having a "companion revolver" in the same caliber really offer anything that matters in the field? Any reason not to pocket a few extra .30-30 rounds and a few .44s?
Which would you rather reload? The necked .30-30 or the straight-wall .44?
Recoil? Any real difference between a 336 in .30-30 and an 1894 in .44?
Straight grip vs. 336 style pistol grip? It's easy to find a .44 in a straight grip, and a .30-30 in pistol grip. It's hard to find the reverse. Which would you rather carry and shoot?
Different factors include:
.30-30 shoots flatter, .44 shoots a heavier bullet, but slower
Is flat shooting even an issue with iron sights? If you can't aim past 150 yards, who cares if your MPBR is 230?
What's REALLY more effective for hunting something tougher than dry country mulies, like pig or bear? 170@2200, or 240@1750?
Does having a "companion revolver" in the same caliber really offer anything that matters in the field? Any reason not to pocket a few extra .30-30 rounds and a few .44s?
Which would you rather reload? The necked .30-30 or the straight-wall .44?
Recoil? Any real difference between a 336 in .30-30 and an 1894 in .44?
Straight grip vs. 336 style pistol grip? It's easy to find a .44 in a straight grip, and a .30-30 in pistol grip. It's hard to find the reverse. Which would you rather carry and shoot?
I don't consider mine bad at all (with a non-Marlin recoil pad, that is). Even with Garret's +P ammo It's not over the top to me.
Having heard all manner of .45-70 recoil tales, I seriously was nonplussed by the lack of drama the first time I shot it.
inherentical
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ArmedBear:
It depends on the load you're shooting. 300 grain to 400 grain mild loads are actually pretty easy on the shoulder, I think. It's more of a shove than a sharp rap. I have one of the older ported models, so that seems to help out a bit, too. If you use something like Garrett's .45-70 Hammerhead ammo or load your own really hot, I'd suspect that you'd want a nice recoil pad on it. Or a new shoulder at the end of the day if you're shooting it a lot.
It depends on the load you're shooting. 300 grain to 400 grain mild loads are actually pretty easy on the shoulder, I think. It's more of a shove than a sharp rap. I have one of the older ported models, so that seems to help out a bit, too. If you use something like Garrett's .45-70 Hammerhead ammo or load your own really hot, I'd suspect that you'd want a nice recoil pad on it. Or a new shoulder at the end of the day if you're shooting it a lot.
B.D. Turner
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I own both a Marlin 1894 in .44 magnum and a Marlin 336W in 30-30. I really like both rifles to an extreme. In a hunting situation at 125 yds or less I would take either. I hunt in eastern North Carolina and both are fine woods rifles. Both will do a fine job on deer, black bear, hogs and coyotes. The 30-30 shoots flatter and with the new LE ammunition gives a great edge over the old 30-30 ammunition designs and is the greatest advance in ammunition ever for the 30-30.
Ok so which rifle wins out? The .44 holds 11 rounds so you can plink longer without reloading. The .44 can also shoot .44 specials which places recoil at nil. The 1894 has ballard rifling rather than micro groove so you can shoot lead bullets. Store bought ammo will run about $17 to $22 per 50 rounds. I paid $350 for the 1894 new in box. It comes with a nice walnut stock and checkering. The 1894 comes with a rubber recoil pad from the factory. Recoil is noticable but not painfull but much more noticable than with the 30-30. It is also drilled and tapped for a scope.
The 336W was a Christmas gift from my wife this year. It holds 7 rounds of 30-30 which is way plenty for hunting. It has a pistol grip stock but is not as fancy as the walnut found on the 1894. The 30-30 can now take advantage of the new LE ammunition. One gun writer(can't remember his name) took all major north american game with a 30-30 using Leverevolution the first year it came out so it is a proven round. The 30-30 is very low on recoil and comes with a hard plastic buttplate from the factory. It is drilled and tapped for a scope and comes with a sling and attached swivels right out of the box. It also has the classic gold Marlin trigger. The 336W sells for $289 + tax at WalMart.
I honestly do not believe you could go wrong with either rifle.
Ok so which rifle wins out? The .44 holds 11 rounds so you can plink longer without reloading. The .44 can also shoot .44 specials which places recoil at nil. The 1894 has ballard rifling rather than micro groove so you can shoot lead bullets. Store bought ammo will run about $17 to $22 per 50 rounds. I paid $350 for the 1894 new in box. It comes with a nice walnut stock and checkering. The 1894 comes with a rubber recoil pad from the factory. Recoil is noticable but not painfull but much more noticable than with the 30-30. It is also drilled and tapped for a scope.
The 336W was a Christmas gift from my wife this year. It holds 7 rounds of 30-30 which is way plenty for hunting. It has a pistol grip stock but is not as fancy as the walnut found on the 1894. The 30-30 can now take advantage of the new LE ammunition. One gun writer(can't remember his name) took all major north american game with a 30-30 using Leverevolution the first year it came out so it is a proven round. The 30-30 is very low on recoil and comes with a hard plastic buttplate from the factory. It is drilled and tapped for a scope and comes with a sling and attached swivels right out of the box. It also has the classic gold Marlin trigger. The 336W sells for $289 + tax at WalMart.
I honestly do not believe you could go wrong with either rifle.
I've only shot .30-30 in an old hard buttplate Winchester 94. It was a jackhammer to the shoulder, not that it blew me backwards or something; it was just harsh. After that, I thought that .30-30 lever guns were not too pleasant to shoot a lot.
I shot it right after my .30-06, which was no problem. I'm not real recoil sensitive. I shoot 12 Gauge shotguns a good amount.
Do I guess correctly that the old Winchester's stock geometry had a LOT more to do with this than the round?
I shot it right after my .30-06, which was no problem. I'm not real recoil sensitive. I shoot 12 Gauge shotguns a good amount.
Do I guess correctly that the old Winchester's stock geometry had a LOT more to do with this than the round?
rdaines
Member
I would certainly check out the Marlin XLR rifles especially if you're entertaining the idea of using the Lever Evolution ammo. Slightly longer barrel which may translate into a little more range. For me, I'm waiting on a 444 Marlin in the XLR. While not a handgun cartridge it's close enough and similar to the 45-70 but with a great range of bullet weights to choose from for reloading. Or get crazy and think about the .308 Marlin Express. I'd rather have that than the .30-30.
Nice ballistics, but I've already got a rifle that's too long to carry in the thick stuff.
Also, what I've read is that the .30-30 is the round that benefits most from the new Hornady ammo, and that the big bore rounds don't gain as much over the traditional versions. I can't say if it's true. The .308 Marlin looks really good, though I don't necessarily need to be the first on my block to get one, with the accompanying price premium.
Specifically, though, I'm looking for something under 40" OAL, to carry and use in our thick brush, where I find my 24" barrel .30-06 with a scope to be a real PITA.
Those are all factors that figure into my inability to decide.
Well, that and the fact that I don't have the money to just buy one of each.
Also, what I've read is that the .30-30 is the round that benefits most from the new Hornady ammo, and that the big bore rounds don't gain as much over the traditional versions. I can't say if it's true. The .308 Marlin looks really good, though I don't necessarily need to be the first on my block to get one, with the accompanying price premium.
Specifically, though, I'm looking for something under 40" OAL, to carry and use in our thick brush, where I find my 24" barrel .30-06 with a scope to be a real PITA.
Those are all factors that figure into my inability to decide.
Well, that and the fact that I don't have the money to just buy one of each.
rdaines
Member
For a short rifle then I'd have to vote 44 Mag. I made a similar choice but with the Marlin in .41 Mag. Does 100 yards just fine and probable further if I scoped it.
edrice
Member
You absolutely must have both 30-30 and 44mag. Then you can carry on about which to take with you. But at the range I take both.
It's interesting to hear the responses on recoil. I have the 16.25 inch 1894P and it seems I can shoot that all day long without misery, but my 336SS will have my shoulder sore in short order, and then I have to go back to the 1894P. I just ordered a new recoil pad for the 336.
I've put a total of three rounds through a Guide Gun, 300 grainers, and while the rifle ended up at a fairly high angle, it was more like a push than a thump. It was more pleasant than I had imagined. A twelve gauge is worse.
Ed
It's interesting to hear the responses on recoil. I have the 16.25 inch 1894P and it seems I can shoot that all day long without misery, but my 336SS will have my shoulder sore in short order, and then I have to go back to the 1894P. I just ordered a new recoil pad for the 336.
I've put a total of three rounds through a Guide Gun, 300 grainers, and while the rifle ended up at a fairly high angle, it was more like a push than a thump. It was more pleasant than I had imagined. A twelve gauge is worse.
Ed
I have a customized Marlin 336C with a shortened barrel and mag tube that is pretty much ideal for the purpose you mentioned. I load it with traditional 170 gr ammo. It looks like a Guide Gun only with XS Ghost Ring sights and a pistol grip stock. It's a handy, quick-handling carbine.
I use the LeverEvolution ammo in my 336XLR.
I use the LeverEvolution ammo in my 336XLR.
tubeshooter
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I don't have the .44, but this question comes up a lot and I always take a peek to see what is said.
Based on reading, seems like some of the bigger differences are felt recoil, reloadability, and maybe to an extent factory ammo price (I don't really know what .44 goes for nowadays). If it were me, I'd focus on those aspects. I've always been a fan of the "companion revolver" deal too, so personally I factor that in. +1 for .44 mag on that.
For a lot of the other stuff, it sounds like they are about equally good at. Or too close to call. Just my humble thoughts, which I readily defer to hunters who have actually used both.
Based on reading, seems like some of the bigger differences are felt recoil, reloadability, and maybe to an extent factory ammo price (I don't really know what .44 goes for nowadays). If it were me, I'd focus on those aspects. I've always been a fan of the "companion revolver" deal too, so personally I factor that in. +1 for .44 mag on that.
For a lot of the other stuff, it sounds like they are about equally good at. Or too close to call. Just my humble thoughts, which I readily defer to hunters who have actually used both.
Snowman92D
Member
Y'know...I went through this myself over the past five years or so. For me the .30-30 is just more accurate, and more forgiving of errors I make in judging distance. I used a Winchester levergun in .44 magnum pretty steadily for a long time, and I never could get it to hit as quickly and easily as I can with my Marlin .30-30. Not sure if all .44 magnum leverguns are this way, but the ones I've used aren't as smoothly sure in cycling ammo from the mag tube to the chamber as the .30-30's either.
ChristopherG
Member
I've also got the .41 Marlin for 'brush-gun' use and prefer it to the .30-30 because of the ease of reloading straight-walled pistol calibers (and it's cheaper--at least the brass is--and lasts longer). And, you can easily load up subsonic lead bullets (cheap) for plinking and play, and it holds a bunch of them (as noted).
If I'm going somewhere where I need more gun or anticipate shots over a hundred yards, I take a scoped bolt gun. Within a hundred (well, 125), this is plenty of gun.
If I'm going somewhere where I need more gun or anticipate shots over a hundred yards, I take a scoped bolt gun. Within a hundred (well, 125), this is plenty of gun.
raginrednek
Member
30-30
get the 30-30. most will shoot well, some 44's, microgroove marlins, need experimentation to get factory ammo that shoots well.
also consider a 357 mag lever. you get close in ballistics to 30-30 but can plink away with 38s and 357.
i have a 30-30 and a 357, love the 357.
for a cheapie 30-30, look for a used mossberg or revelation lever. they were ugly from the factory, but shoot well and are usually ugly(almost milsurp) and cheap.
get the 30-30. most will shoot well, some 44's, microgroove marlins, need experimentation to get factory ammo that shoots well.
also consider a 357 mag lever. you get close in ballistics to 30-30 but can plink away with 38s and 357.
i have a 30-30 and a 357, love the 357.
for a cheapie 30-30, look for a used mossberg or revelation lever. they were ugly from the factory, but shoot well and are usually ugly(almost milsurp) and cheap.
Old Time Hunter
Member
My .44 '94 Trapper has harvested 13 Whitetail, 1 Black Bear, and 1 Bull Elk up the Clark Fork in the Bitter Root.....it is an excellent choice. I am also one of the lucky ones with the 1-18 rifling, so loading large (over 300 grains) cast bullets are still a viable option.
That being said, they also made the Trapper in .30-30, unfortunately I do not have one. If I had a choice, I would take the one in .30-30, especially if you do not load your own.
That being said, they also made the Trapper in .30-30, unfortunately I do not have one. If I had a choice, I would take the one in .30-30, especially if you do not load your own.
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I have owned many Marlin 30-30s and 44s. With the same length barrel and straight stock design, the 44 is noticeably lighter and handier to carry due to the much larger hole in the end of the barrel and shorter action. The difference in felt recoil with standard factory 30-30 and 44 loads is negligible. Neither kick very hard in my opinion.
I will say that as a rule the round bolt of the 336 action is much smoother to operate out of the box than the square 1894 bolt. That can change with some fine tuning.
If you plan on scoping the rifle, by all means go with the 30-30. It has a distinct trajectory advantage. If you plan to use factory sights, or better yet an aperture sight for 100 yds or less go with the 44. It is noticeably lighter to carry after you have lugged it over hill and dale for several miles.
I like them both, but if you really want the best deer, bear, hog levergun round ever made go with the Marlin in 35 Remington.
I will say that as a rule the round bolt of the 336 action is much smoother to operate out of the box than the square 1894 bolt. That can change with some fine tuning.
If you plan on scoping the rifle, by all means go with the 30-30. It has a distinct trajectory advantage. If you plan to use factory sights, or better yet an aperture sight for 100 yds or less go with the 44. It is noticeably lighter to carry after you have lugged it over hill and dale for several miles.
I like them both, but if you really want the best deer, bear, hog levergun round ever made go with the Marlin in 35 Remington.
50 rds of 300 gr 44 mag with no recoil pad on a Marlin 1894 CB was no big deal... 50 rds of .30-30 170gr from a 336? Better have a recoil pad.
I have an 1894 and a straight stocked short barreled 336T .30-30 to compare side by side. With iron sights, I'd take the .44, if I scoped it take the .30-30.
Either will do the job.
I have an 1894 and a straight stocked short barreled 336T .30-30 to compare side by side. With iron sights, I'd take the .44, if I scoped it take the .30-30.
Either will do the job.
JustsayMo
Member
TnBigBore said it very well. Mirrors my experience.
It would be a difficult choice if I had to choose but I believe for Deer and Black Bear I would go with the 1894 in 44 Mag. I've never shot a Hog so I can't comment on eithers performance on that critter.
Until very recently my 44 Mag 1894 was my go-to "Brush" gun (switched to a 1894 CB in 45 Colt). Easy carrying, accurate ( http://www.grovestreet.com/jsp/onepic.jsp?id=1066975 ) and in my opinion (unscientific, limited sample) better performance on game. With a quality flat point bullet, either jacketed (I like Speer's 240gr) or cast (.431") will leave an excellent permanent wound channel and if there is need to track, there will be plenty of blood and it wont be a long one. Hollow points don't reliably exit even on our local little Blacktails. That seems to be especially true at 44 Mag Rifle velocities (again unscientific, small sample of incidences).
44 is a fun caliber to reload for. Recoil difference is undetectable by me. Both 30-30 and 44 seem very mild to me. The only Marlin I have with a recoil pad is an 1895GS and it's the only one that needs it IMHO.
If budget is a primary factor I'd agree that the 357 is a good option, especially if you don't reload. I'm not sure I'd try to take a bear with it though. Deer on down, I'd not hesitate to go hunting with it. 44 has the bigger grin factor though.
Marlin levers are very addictive. I started with a 22 (4), got a 357, a 44, a 30-30 (2), a 45-70 (4) and one in 45 Colt. I'd like to get one in 444, 35 Rem and 32 H&R...
It would be a difficult choice if I had to choose but I believe for Deer and Black Bear I would go with the 1894 in 44 Mag. I've never shot a Hog so I can't comment on eithers performance on that critter.
Until very recently my 44 Mag 1894 was my go-to "Brush" gun (switched to a 1894 CB in 45 Colt). Easy carrying, accurate ( http://www.grovestreet.com/jsp/onepic.jsp?id=1066975 ) and in my opinion (unscientific, limited sample) better performance on game. With a quality flat point bullet, either jacketed (I like Speer's 240gr) or cast (.431") will leave an excellent permanent wound channel and if there is need to track, there will be plenty of blood and it wont be a long one. Hollow points don't reliably exit even on our local little Blacktails. That seems to be especially true at 44 Mag Rifle velocities (again unscientific, small sample of incidences).
44 is a fun caliber to reload for. Recoil difference is undetectable by me. Both 30-30 and 44 seem very mild to me. The only Marlin I have with a recoil pad is an 1895GS and it's the only one that needs it IMHO.
If budget is a primary factor I'd agree that the 357 is a good option, especially if you don't reload. I'm not sure I'd try to take a bear with it though. Deer on down, I'd not hesitate to go hunting with it. 44 has the bigger grin
factor though.Marlin levers are very addictive. I started with a 22 (4), got a 357, a 44, a 30-30 (2), a 45-70 (4) and one in 45 Colt. I'd like to get one in 444, 35 Rem and 32 H&R...
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