Lever gun, .30-30 vs. .44M

[jimmyraythomason]

The only problem I had with my Marlin 1894 .44 mag. (bought used in 1972 for $50.00) was that EVERYBODY wanted to borrow it!

 

[Dr.Rob]

FYI don't buy the 1894 cowboy model unless you really want the octagon barrel, it doesn't have sling swivels and the rear sight doesn't fold down.

But man is it cool.

 

[ArmedBear]

'Round these parts, sweat, dry brush, gravel and coarse sand are the enemy.

I'd planned on stainless, much as I like the looks of Cowboy on the rack. Liked it even better when it was a CCH receiver. After a little use, the stainless carbine will look FAR better.

 

[Cosmoline]

.30-30 (I'd suggest Win 94, Marlin, or Savage 99):

-Narrower range of factory loads and potential handloads

-Loads almost all good for hunting deer, and almost all very well tested in the field.

-Flatter trajectory and better retained energy

.44 (I'd suggest a Win 92 or clone or one of the Marlins)

-More care needed in load selection

-More rainbow trajectory and faster loss of energy

-Faster followups, less recoil

 

[ArmedBear]

It appears that current Marlins have Ballard rifling. That should make load selection a little less unnerving.

WRT trajectory, I figured MPBR of a .44 in a 20" barrel is a bit over 150 yards. If I use iron sights on a light gun, offhand, I have no business shooting farther than that at game. Am I wrong?

 

[B.D. Turner]

When someone says a 30-30 is only good to 150 yds does that mean the bullet has ran out of gas or just dropped its speed below what they want in a deer gun.

 

[phonesysphonesys]

Why not get a 336 in .35 Remington ? You can handload 200 and 220 grain bullets for big game. For plinking and small game you can load .357 bullets.
Thats what I do with mine and I would never part with it. It get slicker with age.

Semper Fi

 

[ArmedBear]

When someone says a 30-30 is only good to 150 yds

First off, it's not true. 200 is more like it. 300 with LEVERevolution bullets. Well, at least for what we call deer here. There are some places where a deer is as big as what we here in the desert might call a moose.

But second, it would mean that the bullet dropped below a certain threshold, usually of energy, and there is some distance where this is true for all bullets. It could be 10 yards, it could be 1000, depending on the bullet and muzzle velocity. It could be ZERO, depending on the game. Like you wouldn't want to rely on a .22LR to kill a grizzly, from a foot in front of it.

This chart is an interesting and informative attempt to summarize the hunting usefulness of different cartridges.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/game_range_caliber.htm

Now different people have different opinions about the thresholds of energy, bullet weight, velocity, etc. that work for different game. Roy Weatherby was famous for small but VERY fast bullets, even on very large game. Elmer Keith, on the other hand, was known for handgun hunting with big but slow bullets. Both had their share of hunting success, to say the least.

So that chart doesn't tell everything that can be told, but it's a great start.

Another factor is trajectory. If you don't want to account for range when aiming, a given cartridge will only shoot "flat" enough to a given distance. Here's a table that begins to examine that:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

Check these pages out. Chuck Hawks may not know everything, and he has his opinions to be taken with a grain of salt, but reading some of this is worthwhile.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2d.rifles.htm

 

[ArmedBear]

Why not get a 336 in .35 Remington ? You can handload 200 and 220 grain bullets for big game. For plinking and small game you can load .357 bullets.

Is a .35 Remington a .357" bore?

 

[mavracer]

35 rem uses .358 rifle bullets .357 pistol bullets work great for plinking.any of the three will work.the 30-30 will have flatter trajectory and another 25 yards of useable range.but up close and personal a lever 44 mag or 45 colt for that matter with 9+ doubletap or buffalo bore 300+ grn bullets would make a nasty stopper.both co. show velocitys in the 1500 range.
the decision is yours to make

 

[Old Time Hunter]

Does this chuckhawks dude actually have any experience in actually hunting? My 5 X 6 Bull Elk went down with one shot from my .44Mag w/240 Speer JSP out of my 16" Trapper at 'bout 30 yards. According to the chuckhawks dude....it can not be done. And by the way, I shot him thru the right rib cage angled up and out the off side rib cage (spent bullet found resting between the hide and shoulder blade). I can not find justifiable information in pencil and paper computations that relate to real world hunting. Heck, the .45-70 500 gr bullets of the buffalo hunters were taking down 1000lb bison at over five hundred yards. They had to so as not to stampede the herd. According to this yahoo, they ought to be standing on the behind shooting them in the back of the head. What a crock!

 

[Shooter973]

Lever gun 30-30 vs44M?

I have both of these in the Win. Trapper model. The recoil from each is just about equal. Maybe just touch heavier in the 44 mag. as I load pretty heavy loads for it. Same load for my Super Redhawk. Does everything I want a handy short lever rifle to do. In either cartridge.

 

[bg226]

What about the ammo price factor?

After a quick online search, it seems that 44M is actually more pricey than 30-30 ammo.

Hollow points don't reliably exit even on our local little Blacktails. That seems to be especially true at 44 Mag Rifle velocities (again unscientific, small sample of incidences).

Considering that 44M bullets are designed for handgun velocities, perhaps the bullets may not perform properly at rifle velocities. It is hard to discern what pistol ammo works effectively in rifles.

 

[retrieverman]

I have been hunting with a Marlin 336 30-30 for 25 years and have 3 in my safe and 1 in my truck at this time, but I have just purchased a Marlin 1894SS 44 magnum to be a companion to my S&W 629. I also have a Marlin 1895GS guide gun 45-70.

If I could only have one, I would without question go with a Marlin 336SS 30-30. Mine has been converted from pistol grip to straight grip and is scoped with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9 in Talley mounts.

 

[ArmedBear]

Old Time Hunter--

You're right.

However, the charts do start getting one acquainted with the idea that there's SOME relationship between energy, trajectory, bullet weight, etc. and the game and distance you want to use it for.

They're food for thought, that's all.

I've always wondered about the .45-70 (or even -90 or -120) bison thing. Sure seems to argue for the relative importance of big heavy bullets over velocity. Bison are not easy to kill, from what I understand. Never shot one, myself.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The 30-30 has stood the test of time as a hunting rifle. Years ago when you hunted for your meals almost every family had one along with a shotgun. Sure the .44 Magnum is a good round but if you want to hunt dear in the bush, the 30-30 is your rifle. (IMO of course) You won't get 2390 fps w/1902 ft/lbs of energy out of a .44 Magnum.

With Hornady's new LEVERevolution ammo you turn your 30-30 bush gun into a 300 yard hunting rifle.

 

[Red Mist Effect]

Have owned both
30-30 trails end was a great pig gun little bit more range but little weighty but with this new Hornady ammo things might change will have buy another 30-30 to find out what it's like.

44 mag trapper A.E short lite fat little cartridge that hits like a mack truck shoot through a small tree and still kill what ever you've aimed at.beening in the U.S you will have the ability to buy Garret 300gr ammo it must be good stuff if they shoot big eared african cows with it. i've shot alot of pigs "5 years of beening a pro trapper" and IMO i think the 44 mag will serve you well i cant say about bears cause we dont have them here thank god.
recoil is nothing.

marlin's are a tad smother to operate but you will never notice when that pig or bear is comming at you with love in his eye's.either way you go Marlin or Winchester buy the 44 mag you wont be sorry.

 

[Essex County]

This one has been a number of times, but....

My simplistic opinion is under 100 yards, flip a coin. Get much past this and the 30-30 is your friend. I think the 30-30 is very unappreciated. I like them both...........Essex

 

[MinScout]

You already have a .30 cal big game rifle in the 06. Get the .44 mag carbine for woods bumming and brush hunting.

 

[dutchy]

Judging from the replies, it's a draw.
Given the fact that .44 is a straight walled case and therefore easier to handload, I opt for the .44.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

When I was 15 years old, I carried a .30-30 in the saddle boot every day while working cattle on the ranch. I sometimes jumped deer, who would stop and look back when they realized a horse had spooked them. I'd pile off and shoot -- and in a few years, I killed a lot of deer.

My .30-30 was a Model 94 Winchester, with a steel butt plate. I shot deer, coyotes, feral dogs and cats, targets -- anything you can imagine.

When it comes to recoil, the .30-30 is a *****cat.

 

[rbernie]

Bigger bullets are simply more fun - they make bigger holes in paper and they make bigger leaks in the plumbing of four-legged critters. Do you NEED a bigger hole? Mostly, no. But they sure do help.

If I want legs - I'll take a long-piped 270. If I want thump, I want THUMP - that means bigger bullets.

I'm a 35 Remmie kinda guy, but I'd buy a pistol-gripped Marlin 44mag in a heartbeat if I found one.

 

[willsnipe]

44

I've used both extensively, and wound up with a 44 trapper with a red dot sight. Fastest handling gun I own, and when those porkers get big (not to mention close ), you'll appreciate the WHUMP of those heavy bullets.