levergun-revolver combo

[Eb1]

I second the .44 Magnum in both lever and sidearm. You can load .44 Specials in both, and get a little more pop with the special out of the rifle, and still handle the .44 SPC in the revolver.
I would suggest carrying a 5 1/2" SBH in cross draw as I do when I got into the woods. I might have my 30-30 or my bolt .25-06, but I have my .44 Magnum in a cross draw location. I usually carry a loading of 22.0 grains IMR 4227 with a MO Cast Bullet Company 240 grain LSCW, or it will be loaded with a 240 XTP with 20.5 grains of 2400. Neither of these loads are over powering, and I find them to have less recoil than a Double Tap 125 grain .357 Magnum load, but I have modified my Super Blackhawk so that I can shoot it comfortably, and I will explain.

The advantage to this is if you ever start to hand load you can load down the .44 Magnum case with Unique or IMR 4227, and still have a little to a lot more power than the specials. A Ruger SBH with a Hogue Mono Grip loaded with 22.0 grains and a 240 LSWC is not a heavy recoiling round in the SBH. It is actually very pleasant, and I find it to have less recoil than shooting a .357 158 grain full load or even a 125 grain .357 full load. Why? Because the revolver is heavier.

Shooting specials out of a SBH is pleasant with the Hogue grip, and will give you a much bigger hole in the piggies, and you would also bump the velocity when you shoot it out of the rifle.

Another good choice since you do not hand load would be a .45 Colt combination. Again larger holes and heavier bullets to assist in putting down those big piggies.
I hunt in South AR sometimes, and I know about those large pigs you can run into, and I much rather have a .429 or .454 caliber bullet than a .357.

Just something to think about. You can load a .44 Magnum to 1000 fps easily with Unique with mild recoil, and if it shoots good out of the rifle you would probably be in the 1400+ range for velocity.
Shooting factory specials from the revolver with 15 grains of 2400 and a 200 grain bullet you will get close to 1000 fps maybe more, and from the rifle 1400-1600 fps. That is pretty good for close range pig killing. Especially when using a Lead Semi Wad Cutter.

If you were to start hand loading you can use some 255 grain Beartooth bullets with a .34" meplate, and that is a real smacker. A real big thump.

Tough choice since you do not hand load, but I would dismiss the .357 option, and look hard at the .44 Magnum shooting .44 SPC, or .45 Colt using factory ammo, and if you get over the recoil shyness you could shoot Buffalo Bore .45 Colts for a real big boom.

One thing that I can say about a .44 Magnum recoil in the revolver is with a Red Hawk you have a very flat back plate in the grip. More felt recoil. With a factory cowboy SBH grip you have a lot of roll, and it is hard to get a good grip on the revolver, but if you put on a Hogue Mono Grip you still have the shape of a single action grip, but it is much larger and softer. This makes for a lot less felt recoil from the revolver with full power loads. I had to change to the Hogue grip on my SBH, and it made a world of difference in accuracy, and the ability of me to overcome the recoil of full power .44 Magnum loads. It is actually now the most infectious gun I have to shoot. I always take the .44 Magnum to the range, or to the woods.

 

[bergmen]

Either .44 Magnum or .45 Colt, whichever is your caliber of choice are excellent as companion calibers for lever rifles + revolver.

My son and I have .45 Colt levers (Thomas has a Rossi 92 and I have a Marlin 1894) and revolvers (he has a Blackhawk, I have a Bisley).

It is hard to overstate how fun these combos are, really. Also it bears mention that the Rossi 92 is one fabulous rifle. Thomas and I took it to the range to sight it in just yesterday and we couldn't get enough of it. The smoothness of the action and just the sound of it is music to the ears. If I didn't already have the Marlin I would have gotten the Rossi without hesitation.

My son wants a "back scabbard" so he can hike with both hands free. He has a western style belt and holster for the Blackhawk.

It's all good!

Dan

 

[22-rimfire]

There is always the BFR in 30-30 and a 30-30 Lever rifle of your choice.

 

[303tom]

There is always the BFR in 30-30 and a 30-30 Lever rifle of your choice.

Yeh that`s what I said, but they all seem to think that them pistol rounds are better than a Hi-power rifle round......

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Well 303tom, at 100 yards or less, some actually ARE better than a lot of HP rifles. Look at the damage a .44mag carbine will do at 100 yards pushing a 300gr JSP verses the damage a .270 with a 130gr JSP will do. Not to mention a hell of a lot less recoil, much easier to handle in heavy brush, about 1/4 lighter than your average HP rifle, and in most cases, a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot to boot!

 

[Gizards'n'Gravy]

So many choices, more for me to ponder and day dream about in algebra. I think I may just get the Rossi 92 in .44 magnum to carry with me while im lollygaggin around in the woods, Im only going to have time to use one of them anyway so theres really no point in adding a handgun. I beleive I may just get a .357 for plinkin' around. Or I could get a .44 revolver to carry and a .357 lever gun to plink with. Shoot, i may even go ahead and carry a combo just for the heck of it. I dont think I can go wrong though if I have atleast one gun in .44magnum to carry with me.

 

[mashaffer]

I like Latigo's combo the best myself but primarily because it would work better with black powder than most other combos (with possible exception of .45 colt). But if you don't hand load I would fall into the .44 mag camp. If mags were too heavy for the handgun just use the specials. When shot out of a rifle the special load is really close to the magnum load out of a handgun (unless using super wimpy cowboy gamer loads).

The .429 240 grain slug will hit hard even at rather modest velocity and lots of good factory loads available. AFAIK good factory .45 colt loads are still less plentiful and the .357 just gives you more muzzle blast for the same performance.

mike

 

[willypete]

I have a lever action / revolver combo in .30-30......
I even have a combo in .45-70.......

BFR? Kinda pricey! Cool, though. Not sure I'd want to pack a lever action rifle and a long-cylinder revolver at the same time, though.

 

[303tom]

Well 303tom, at 100 yards or less, some actually ARE better than a lot of HP rifles. Look at the damage a .44mag carbine will do at 100 yards pushing a 300gr JSP verses the damage a .270 with a 130gr JSP will do. Not to mention a hell of a lot less recoil, much easier to handle in heavy brush, about 1/4 lighter than your average HP rifle, and in most cases, a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot to boot!

Sectional density (SD) is the numerical result of a calculation that compares a bullet's weight to its diameter. To calculate a bullet's sectional density divide the bullet's weight (in pounds) by its diameter (in inches), squared. The higher the SD number the better the SD, and the heavier a bullet is in proportion to its diameter.

SD is important because it has a significant effect on penetration. Other things being equal (like impact velocity, bullet design and material, etc.) the higher the SD number, the better the bullet's penetration. In other words, a skinny bullet of a given weight tends to penetrate better than a fat bullet of the same weight, because it concentrates the same force on a smaller area of the target. For example, if other factors are equal, a 150 grain .270 bullet will penetrate better than a 150 grain .35 caliber bullet.

Penetration is important because the bullet must get well inside an animal to disrupt the functioning of its vital organs. A bullet that fails to penetrate the fur, skin, muscle, and bone necessary to reach the vital organs is very unlikely to bring an animal down.

SD stays the same for all bullets of the same weight in the same caliber--shape does not affect SD. This information is important to remember when comparing rifle bullets.




http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Formulas don't tell me anything that I have not seen in real time view Tom. I've seen deer damn near turned inside out from .44mag hits. I understand Sectional density and the physics behind it. It's the same old argument of "Big and slow verses Small and fast". Seen both work and they both have their place. For close in brush work, I prefer big and slow bone crushers verses high speed little missals. Them big old bruising 240 to 300 grain chunks just plow right on through a deer and usually pin them right there. Killed too many deer and hog with my .44mag SRH to discount them.

You can quote off every chuck hawks website formula you wish to, still wont turn me away from a good lever action .44mag in the heavy brush area. I've just seen absolutely too much REAL time proof, not some formula on paper, to discount what they will do in the yardages they are designed for. 100-125 or less.

 

[lizziedog1]

Not to mention a hell of a lot less recoil,

I have shot small 44 magnum carbines. I have shot full sized rifles chambered in 270 type calibers.

The carbines were more unpleasant to shoot.

 

[mavracer]

SD is important because it has a significant effect on penetration. Other things being equal (like impact velocity, bullet design and material, etc.) the higher the SD number, the better the bullet's penetration.

There's more to external ballistics and terminal bullet performance than just sectional density. As I said before it's really only a hard and fast factor with a solid, hard cast or FMJ once expansion takes place it changes the effective SD. If a 170gr .308 bullet and a 170gr .357 bullet both expand to .5" they have the same effective sectional density. Plus since the .357 bullet requires less expansion to reach .5" less energy is used for expansion leaving more for penatration. This is why out to 75 yards or so there is little difference in terminal effectiveness between a good .357 load and a 30/30.

 

[jmstevens2]

Any chance you might get into Cowboy action once you have the guns for it. That would make the .45 Colt look better.
I personally do the .357 set.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

I've never fired one from a bench but every .44mag carbine I have ever shot from standing/kneeling positions had very little recoil to me. Maybe they just fit me well and the ones you fired didn't fit your shoulder well. Fit has a LOT to do with felt recoil.

 

[lizziedog1]

170gr .308 bullet and a 170gr .357 bullet both expand to .5" they have the same effective sectional density. Plus since

Being that the 30-30 bullet is traveling much faster, it will have penetrated more tissue as it expanded. Thus, more damage was done to the animal.

My God. Hold a 30-30 round in one hand and hold a 357 magnum round in the other. Are you sure that they are equal to each other in effectiveness?

I guess the writers have been successful.

I don't know how many times I have read that the 30-30 is marginally effective for deer, only at very close range, if the shot is hits the heart and severes the spinal chord.

The same writer will then write how a 357 or 44 would be the ideal weapon in a Jurrasic Park setting. You just shoot it in the general direction of a game animal and you will kill it.

Here is a fun experiment to try. Fill two five gallon metal cans with water and seal them. Place them on a table at fifty yards. Shoot one with a 357 or a 44, the other with a 30-30.

 

[mavracer]

Being that the 30-30 bullet is traveling much faster, it will have penetrated more tissue as it expanded. Thus, more damage was done to the animal.

Having actually chronographed rounds from Buffalo Bore in 357 and Fed/Win in 30/30 I can tell you it isn't "much" faster. Real velocitys from real guns the BB 158gr load is less than 100 fps slower than Win 150gr 30/30.

Here is a fun experiment to try. Fill two five gallon metal cans with water and seal them. Place them on a table at fifty yards. Shoot one with a 357 or a 44, the other with a 30-30.

Here's another fun one you wan't to see some penatration get a few of those 5 gallon buckets and see how many the 30/30 will go through then get some BB 340gr 44mag ammo and try it out of a rifle. BTW my trapper length Rossi chronoed 1650fps that's more energy and about 40% more momentum than a 170gr 30/30.

 

[303tom]

160 gr (10 g) cast LFN 1,616 ft/s (493 m/s) 928 ft·lbf (1,258 J)

This is .30-30 Winchester.

158 gr (10.2 g) Buffalo Bore Heavy 1,485 ft/s (453 m/s) 774 ft·lbf (1,049 J)

This is .357 Magnum

 

[Eb1]

So, 303tom it looks like I'd have to shoot anemic LFN 160 grain @ 1616 fps to match the ultra-magnum .357 158 grain BB "Heavy" loads.

What happened to the 150 jacketed loads @ 2350 fps from the 30-30? Can you not get those anymore?
What about the 125 grain FN HP @ 2520 FPS out of my 20" 336? I wonder how those compare to the BB "Heavy" Ultra-Magnum .357?

But those .357 speeds are from a revolver. Right? Not a rifle. Couldn't be.

 

[Jeff H]

Another good choice since you do not hand load would be a .45 Colt combination.

IMHO, 45 Colt is a bad choice if you don't hand load. Factory rounds are expensive and 90% of what is loaded are mouse fart loads for the Cowboy shooting crowd. Standard pressure 45 Colt isn't all that impressive either. 45 Colt doesn't get as effective as 44 mag until you get into the Ruger only loads and I don't think you can buy those except for maybe the stuff made by Buffalo Bore and similar companies and that stuff isn't cheap.

Personally, I have the combo in 357 mag and love it, but I think 44 mag would do well also, but the handguns are generally bigger and heavier in 44 mag if that makes a difference for you.

 

[Deanimator]

I've got two S&W Model 29s, a 4" and a 6".

I'm thinking of getting a 16" or 20" Cimarron Model 92 in .44 Magnum to go with them.

 

[mavracer]

3o3tom
It's quite disingenuinous to use the ballistics of the 357 from a 4" pistol

2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps

5. 18.5 inch Marlin 1894
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2153 fps

the correct energy figure for the 357 from a RIFLE would be 1626 ft/lbs

What about the 125 grain FN HP @ 2520 FPS out of my 20" 336? I wonder how those compare to the BB "Heavy" Ultra-Magnum .357?

5. 18.5 inch Marlin 1894
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2298 fps

 

[GaryV]

lever/revolver combo

Good morning ALL!
Just my 2 cents: own two combo- Rossi 16" .357 mag trapper/Cimmeron-Uberty 4 5/8" SAA & Rossi 20" .45Colt/USFA Rodeo 5 1/2". Here in the panhandle, feral hogs tear up our deer feeders, so we are always prepared to do what needs to be done. I find the .357 mag combo loaded with handloads (Hornady 158 gr. XTP sp - chrono 1535 fps from trapper) ends up in the truck more often than the .45 combo. Has never failed to do the job under 100 yards. The same load is not uncomfortable to shoot in the revolver.
Works for Me! Load can be store bought in several brands.

Stay safe out there.
gary

 

[Eb1]

Mavracer, I still have you beat by 250 or so fps with my hand loads.

 

[mavracer]

Mavracer, I still have you beat by 250 or so fps with my hand loads.

not sure where I read this but "Learn to shoot well, and you will find that becoming a marksmen will bag you more game than printed ballistics."
Look my original point was out of a rifle the 357 is close to the power of a 30/30. Now we can play this game all day but at the end of the day there just isn't any animal that I'm scared of holding my .357 loaded with my 180gr@1900+ fps handloads that my 30/30 would make me feel any better and vise versa although I would rather have my 44 mag or 38/55 than either for the big scary stuff.

 

[Eb1]

Exactly! So why do people knock .22 LR? All I was saying was that a .357 can never be a 30-30.