Sean Smith
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- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
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- 4,925
63.
Libertarian purity Test
- Thread starter Chuck Jennings
- Start date
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Gordon Fink
Member
As others have already correctly concluded, this “libertarian purity test†is really an anarchy purity test.
Anarchy was the very first form of government we ever had. It was so spectacularly successful that it was quickly replaced by the political system we still enjoy to this day … tyranny punctuated by brief periods of mere oligarchy.
Anarcho-capitalism is no more realistic than communism. A libertarian “minarchy†is the best freedom-loving people can hope for, and even that would be a challenge to establish, if not maintain.
~G. Fink, “medium-core libertarianâ€
Anarchy was the very first form of government we ever had. It was so spectacularly successful that it was quickly replaced by the political system we still enjoy to this day … tyranny punctuated by brief periods of mere oligarchy.
Anarcho-capitalism is no more realistic than communism. A libertarian “minarchy†is the best freedom-loving people can hope for, and even that would be a challenge to establish, if not maintain.
~G. Fink, “medium-core libertarianâ€
Treylis
Member
94. And I thought I was a hard-core Libertarian, haha.
Anarchy purity test indeed.
Actually, I would say it's closer to the truth that the first forms of government were feudal-tribal in nature, and not anarchic by a long shot.
Anarchy purity test indeed.
Actually, I would say it's closer to the truth that the first forms of government were feudal-tribal in nature, and not anarchic by a long shot.
mercedesrules
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- Mar 22, 2003
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- 1,010
Me, too...and my only "kid" is 37, married-with-children and lives in another state
160
MR
Selfdfenz
Member
End product of the Anarchic plan of government-
Bedlam.
End product of the Feudal-Tribal plan for government-
Bedlam, but organized bedlam, with marching, flags and a dress code.
S-
Bedlam.
End product of the Feudal-Tribal plan for government-
Bedlam, but organized bedlam, with marching, flags and a dress code.
S-
93.
Many questions I wanted to answer "maybe" or "depends" or "somewhat."
"Should police be privatized?" Some services which are currently being handled by a police monopoly definitely would benefit from privatization. For example, the service of civil process by qualified private process servers is without a doubt better than a being restricted to constables and sheriffs. This has been proved beyond a doubt in, oddly enough, California and Massachusetts, among other places.
Many questions I wanted to answer "maybe" or "depends" or "somewhat."
"Should police be privatized?" Some services which are currently being handled by a police monopoly definitely would benefit from privatization. For example, the service of civil process by qualified private process servers is without a doubt better than a being restricted to constables and sheriffs. This has been proved beyond a doubt in, oddly enough, California and Massachusetts, among other places.
Peetmoss
Member
40 and thank God for that. Alot of those Ideas are nuts.
TheBluesMan
Senior Member
47 and quite comfortable with it.
Anyone who scored 75 or more would renege on many of their answers if their nearest five neighbors sold their properties and were replaced by a Les./Gay/Bi./Trans./Str./Beast/Ped. S&M sex club, a chicken and turkey farm with on-site slaughterhouse, a methamphetamine lab and factory outlet store, a metal stamping factory running three shifts and a crazy old guy with rusty cars and appliances all over his unmown lawn.
Bank on it.
Anyone who scored 75 or more would renege on many of their answers if their nearest five neighbors sold their properties and were replaced by a Les./Gay/Bi./Trans./Str./Beast/Ped. S&M sex club, a chicken and turkey farm with on-site slaughterhouse, a methamphetamine lab and factory outlet store, a metal stamping factory running three shifts and a crazy old guy with rusty cars and appliances all over his unmown lawn.
Bank on it.
Peetmoss
Member
jsalcedo
"Here is a good example:
Public schools. I spend $5200 per year in school taxes and have very little control in the quality of education my kid receives.
All I can do is complain, get involved and make up for the education short comings with my own tutoring.
I could put my kid in a private school of my choosing where my money as a customer made a difference in the quality of the curriculum and faculty.
But no... my $5200 is spent already and the government will seize my home if I refuse to pay.
My kids future has been compromised because I am FORCED to choose a state run monopoly."
First let me state that I am a little biasiast on the school issue. I work for one.
First off a public school is one of the places were your opinion counts the most. Voter turnout is relitivly small in most cases. Also the people that make all the policies of your school district are your neighbors. You can talk to them or even run for the BOARD. OMG you might have to get involved to change something you don't like.
Sure you can put your kid in a Private school, and the 5200 you spend on taxes would barly cover the cost of transporting one kid to a private school. Do you acctually know how much a bus costs? (In NY between 40 and 90 grand not including paying the driver and maintance of the bus) Or do you plan on rearranging your schedual to take you child to and from school.
Were I am from we are mandated by the state to transport a student to any private school of there parents choosing provided it is within 20 miles as the crow flies from the students driveway. There is no distance to great for a child that has "Special Needs". If your child was deaf or blind or whatever and the only place that could provide an education for them was say 700 miles away could you afford on your own to send them there till they were 21. Probably not . However we would provide the transportation, most likley a plane in this case. This has acctually been done in my area. They flew the student about 300 miles to Albany on monday morning and flew him home on friday afternoon.
In closing the only thing you are forced to do is pay your taxes(probably half of that 5200 is also town or city taxes used for roads and such isn't it), you can home school your children or send them to a private school of your choosing (taxpayer funded in some cases). Get involved or don't complain.
"Here is a good example:
Public schools. I spend $5200 per year in school taxes and have very little control in the quality of education my kid receives.
All I can do is complain, get involved and make up for the education short comings with my own tutoring.
I could put my kid in a private school of my choosing where my money as a customer made a difference in the quality of the curriculum and faculty.
But no... my $5200 is spent already and the government will seize my home if I refuse to pay.
My kids future has been compromised because I am FORCED to choose a state run monopoly."
First let me state that I am a little biasiast on the school issue. I work for one.
First off a public school is one of the places were your opinion counts the most. Voter turnout is relitivly small in most cases. Also the people that make all the policies of your school district are your neighbors. You can talk to them or even run for the BOARD. OMG you might have to get involved to change something you don't like.
Sure you can put your kid in a Private school, and the 5200 you spend on taxes would barly cover the cost of transporting one kid to a private school. Do you acctually know how much a bus costs? (In NY between 40 and 90 grand not including paying the driver and maintance of the bus) Or do you plan on rearranging your schedual to take you child to and from school.
Were I am from we are mandated by the state to transport a student to any private school of there parents choosing provided it is within 20 miles as the crow flies from the students driveway. There is no distance to great for a child that has "Special Needs". If your child was deaf or blind or whatever and the only place that could provide an education for them was say 700 miles away could you afford on your own to send them there till they were 21. Probably not . However we would provide the transportation, most likley a plane in this case. This has acctually been done in my area. They flew the student about 300 miles to Albany on monday morning and flew him home on friday afternoon.
In closing the only thing you are forced to do is pay your taxes(probably half of that 5200 is also town or city taxes used for roads and such isn't it), you can home school your children or send them to a private school of your choosing (taxpayer funded in some cases). Get involved or don't complain.
With public schools you get the benefit of spending not only your own taxes; but the taxes of people with bigger houses and/or no kids.
Downside is you pay them your whole life, not just when you have kids.
You also get the benefits of having some unfirable union prat indoctrinate your kid on the wonders of marxism.
Downside is you pay them your whole life, not just when you have kids.
You also get the benefits of having some unfirable union prat indoctrinate your kid on the wonders of marxism.
Jim March
Member
A 136.
I have to say that workplace safety laws (OR an equivelent financial penalty through a court system!) must remain in place.
Here's why: workers often will not KNOW the risks involved in specific activities, esp. if newly hired. The employer will have a stronger clue, therefore has to have some system of liability.
For a look at how bad it can get without controls, see also the horrific level of Chinese deaths building the railroad eastbound from Sacramento in the 19th Century.
I have to say that workplace safety laws (OR an equivelent financial penalty through a court system!) must remain in place.
Here's why: workers often will not KNOW the risks involved in specific activities, esp. if newly hired. The employer will have a stronger clue, therefore has to have some system of liability.
For a look at how bad it can get without controls, see also the horrific level of Chinese deaths building the railroad eastbound from Sacramento in the 19th Century.
Those deaths back then reflected the times, not the laws.
Such laws then would not only have been unenforceable; but impossible to comply with.
The lower death rates of people in general have come about because of inventions and innovations, not because of busy-bodies threatening to send the goons around.
Life was short for people pushing ploughs, too. . . .
Such laws then would not only have been unenforceable; but impossible to comply with.
The lower death rates of people in general have come about because of inventions and innovations, not because of busy-bodies threatening to send the goons around.
Life was short for people pushing ploughs, too. . . .
atek3
Member
157 (woohoo, same as tamara )
"Should all of the Federal Reserve's discretionary powers be eliminated and the monetary base frozen? " (that would be the monetarist answer)
As an austrian, I said no because the FedReserve should be abolished.
" Is bombing civilians in an enemy country morally equivalent to murder? "
I said yes with the implied statement, Intentionally bombing civilians. "collateral damage" is justified, or else every military base would be built in the basement of a hospital/ day care
atek3
)"Should all of the Federal Reserve's discretionary powers be eliminated and the monetary base frozen? " (that would be the monetarist answer)
As an austrian, I said no because the FedReserve should be abolished.
" Is bombing civilians in an enemy country morally equivalent to murder? "
I said yes with the implied statement, Intentionally bombing civilians. "collateral damage" is justified, or else every military base would be built in the basement of a hospital/ day care
atek3
Gordon Fink
Member
Which is the beginning of tyranny.
But what was there before the first tribal government was organized? Anarchy, that’s what … but it only lasted for maybe 30 minutes before some strongman took over.
Seriously, though, anarchy just evolves (or devolves, depending on your point of view) immediately into rule by the strong (i.e., tyranny).
~G. Fink
Jake
Member
53 for me.
Private school
Peetmoss,
I have to say the availability of a private school depends on your location. In my case the public school I attended was always further away than a private school. They were mostly religious schools, but they were still private. I also believe that tuition for a year was kept well below three grand a year. Because of the attached church, people with financial difficulty could often get assistance in payments. I had some friends who went to that school.
In many cases, because they are supported by tuition and not property taxes, private schools do more on less money than public schools. Public schools have problems firing incompetent teachers due to the unions and the fact that they're governmental. A private school that can't deliver will quickly go broke. While subsidisation for handicapped students is a 'nice thing', it doesn't outrule private schools at all.
Peetmoss,
I have to say the availability of a private school depends on your location. In my case the public school I attended was always further away than a private school. They were mostly religious schools, but they were still private. I also believe that tuition for a year was kept well below three grand a year. Because of the attached church, people with financial difficulty could often get assistance in payments. I had some friends who went to that school.
In many cases, because they are supported by tuition and not property taxes, private schools do more on less money than public schools. Public schools have problems firing incompetent teachers due to the unions and the fact that they're governmental. A private school that can't deliver will quickly go broke. While subsidisation for handicapped students is a 'nice thing', it doesn't outrule private schools at all.
SodiumBenzoate
Member
83. Meh... I'll probably get more Libertarian as time goes on (I'm only 13...).
GoRon
Member
69 I would have scored higher 15 years ago.
I would have scored higher 15 years ago.swifter
Member
144
But Libertarianism won't work: Immediately on achieving any power, the Libs will be hijacked by the same power hungry elitist scum that have made the Republicratz so damned offensive, and given us our kakistocracy.
Political power attracts these people like fecal matter attracts flies...
frequent revolutions, to keep the bastards too fearful to form their oligarchies is the answer.
That government governs best that exists in fear of its citizens...
Tom
But Libertarianism won't work: Immediately on achieving any power, the Libs will be hijacked by the same power hungry elitist scum that have made the Republicratz so damned offensive, and given us our kakistocracy.
Political power attracts these people like fecal matter attracts flies...
frequent revolutions, to keep the bastards too fearful to form their oligarchies is the answer.That government governs best that exists in fear of its citizens...
Tom
Billll
Member
50
The public school system is the best investment in public safety we make. It significantly reduces the number of other peoples offspring who, uneducated, take up a life of severely anti-social behavior. Thus, I don't have to shoot them (as often) when they try to steal my car.
I also strongly support private schools and vouchers as a method of keeping the public school system honest. Everyone says they'd like to see it work better, and here's a method to produce that result.
Private enterprise delivering the goods, even in the public sector.
The public school system is the best investment in public safety we make. It significantly reduces the number of other peoples offspring who, uneducated, take up a life of severely anti-social behavior. Thus, I don't have to shoot them (as often) when they try to steal my car.
I also strongly support private schools and vouchers as a method of keeping the public school system honest. Everyone says they'd like to see it work better, and here's a method to produce that result.
Private enterprise delivering the goods, even in the public sector.
Tom Bri
Member
119
A few years ago I would have scored higher. Some of the negative comments people left about the negatives of anarcho-capitalism can be covered by by remembering that protections for property are not eliminated. For example, if a neighbor pollutes and causes damages to your property, you can claim damages in even a private court. Enough damage claims and the inventive to pollute is gone. By the way, this was the way pollution control worked in the US prior to the 1900s, when the courts stopped enforcing traditional tort law. Of course people then were less aware of pollution, or just put up with more of it. People didn't want to drive jobs away. How this would work out in our modern hyper-sensitive culture I don't have any idea, but I doubt pollution would be worse.
A few years ago I would have scored higher. Some of the negative comments people left about the negatives of anarcho-capitalism can be covered by by remembering that protections for property are not eliminated. For example, if a neighbor pollutes and causes damages to your property, you can claim damages in even a private court. Enough damage claims and the inventive to pollute is gone. By the way, this was the way pollution control worked in the US prior to the 1900s, when the courts stopped enforcing traditional tort law. Of course people then were less aware of pollution, or just put up with more of it. People didn't want to drive jobs away. How this would work out in our modern hyper-sensitive culture I don't have any idea, but I doubt pollution would be worse.
Orthonym
Member
I think starry-eyed Libertarians have wrong ideas
about us nasty humans. Some of them seem to think that we two-legged baboons are naturally nice folks, and if reasoned with, will mostly behave reasonably.
Nope.
This is what I call the Ahenobarbic Fallacy, boys and girls; as in Nero. He, like all of us, thought that other people were just like him. Libertarians tend to be anti-social grumpy folks who would not lift a finger to hurt a fellow human, because then they might have to look at him, or talk to him, or something. Believe me, I know; takes one to know one, and all that.
As much as I dislike the way some policemen act, they're right about one thing:
There's some right awkward nasty bastards out there.
Who don't care what the Market thinks, they'll just knock you down and take yer stuff.
On the test itself: I got a 57 mostly because there were some questions I couldn't answer either way, honestly, so I left them unanswered. I am reminded of the "When did you stop beating your wife, and why?" type of question.
Sometimes, I think the only honest answer to some questions is, "It depends."
about us nasty humans. Some of them seem to think that we two-legged baboons are naturally nice folks, and if reasoned with, will mostly behave reasonably.
Nope.
This is what I call the Ahenobarbic Fallacy, boys and girls; as in Nero. He, like all of us, thought that other people were just like him. Libertarians tend to be anti-social grumpy folks who would not lift a finger to hurt a fellow human, because then they might have to look at him, or talk to him, or something. Believe me, I know; takes one to know one, and all that.
As much as I dislike the way some policemen act, they're right about one thing:
There's some right awkward nasty bastards out there.
Who don't care what the Market thinks, they'll just knock you down and take yer stuff.
On the test itself: I got a 57 mostly because there were some questions I couldn't answer either way, honestly, so I left them unanswered. I am reminded of the "When did you stop beating your wife, and why?" type of question.
Sometimes, I think the only honest answer to some questions is, "It depends."
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