Light & Fast or Heavy & Slow?
- Thread starter Alan Fud
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Black Snowman
Member
It's all about shot placement and penetration . Just look at the trench run on the Death Star! 
Yooper
Member
There is more gain with mass than with velocity.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Other Criteria
BIG, Heavy (230 grain), and Slow as found in Federal Hydra-Shok's
for the .45 ACP.
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
BIG, Heavy (230 grain), and Slow as found in Federal Hydra-Shok's
for the .45 ACP.
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
I would like to find a 357 caliber Flat nose with an ogive curve instead of a SWC and have it in 147 gr with a gas check which would make it about 150grs, then push it about 1300fps
trapperjohn
Member
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- Apr 14, 2004
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- 567
How do you figure? Both mass and velocity give equal gains in momentum, but velocity give much greater gains in energy
mtnbkr
Member
I tend to gravitate towards heavy (for the caliber) and slow (or medium).
357: 180gr@1250fps
38special: 158gr@850fps
9mm: 147gr@1000ish (I think it's actually in the 990s)
I deviate with my 32acp. That one is 60gr@1000fps, but I am tinkering around with 85gr bullets.
Chris
357: 180gr@1250fps
38special: 158gr@850fps
9mm: 147gr@1000ish (I think it's actually in the 990s)
I deviate with my 32acp. That one is 60gr@1000fps, but I am tinkering around with 85gr bullets.
Chris
Lennyjoe
Member
You beat me to it.
Snake Eyes
Member
Me Too! (uh, Three!)
The End of Light & Fast v. Heavy & Slow
How about: (relatively) heavy & fast ...
At least among "service" cartridges meant to be fired from autoloaders of reasonable size and weight, this third alternative arrived in the mid-1980s in the form of the 10mm AUTO.
And from Norma to Double Tap, it's still here.
How about: (relatively) heavy & fast ...
At least among "service" cartridges meant to be fired from autoloaders of reasonable size and weight, this third alternative arrived in the mid-1980s in the form of the 10mm AUTO.
And from Norma to Double Tap, it's still here.
Last edited:
Black Snowman
Member
trapperjohn, how do momentum or energy releated to effectivness in a handgun round? Want the answers? See Cosmoline's ongoing thread for tons of good links and information Larger factors are retained velocity, penetration, and displacement. Give me as big as possible, as fast as possible as heavy as possible in that order
Larger factors are retained velocity, penetration, and displacement. Give me as big as possible, as fast as possible as heavy as possible in that order oldschool
Member
Other /Both
Both I currently shoot .45ACP and prefer 200gr or 230gr +P defensive loads
But for the wife, I’m going to get her started shooting, I’m going with 9mm and probably 2 boxes(regular cap mags) of 115gr or 124gr Golden Saber’s. Without Shot Placement the target can survive a hit by a .50 rifle. Tag the thoracic Triangle or the CNS quick & often and the target is going down not that I’m going to be carrying a revolver loaded with .22 shorts any time soon.
Both I currently shoot .45ACP and prefer 200gr or 230gr +P defensive loads
But for the wife, I’m going to get her started shooting, I’m going with 9mm and probably 2 boxes(regular cap mags) of 115gr or 124gr Golden Saber’s. Without Shot Placement the target can survive a hit by a .50 rifle. Tag the thoracic Triangle or the CNS quick & often and the target is going down not that I’m going to be carrying a revolver loaded with .22 shorts any time soon.
J.M.
Member
Niether...I like my bullets fat and heavy...like me.
Because I've seen them work with my own eyes. - JM.
Because I've seen them work with my own eyes. - JM.
The_Shootist
Member
Other
If I wake up after a long night of listening to 50 cent and am feeling especially gangsta, I'll carry my G19.
But if I maybe watched a cowboy flick (or "The Way of the Gun") the night before then its my 1911.
Of course if I wake up feeling lazy, and have no dangerous places to visit, its my P-32
In all seriousness, either will do the job if you're proficient. I tailor my CCW piece more to the weather. During the summer, when the Texas uniform is shorts and a t-shirt then its the Glock (or my Bersa Thunder).
If its "winter" (I use that term loosely - right now its 76 here on Galveston), and bad guys might be more layered up, then its my 1911 (which is easier to conceal anyway under a jacket).
If I wake up after a long night of listening to 50 cent and am feeling especially gangsta, I'll carry my G19.
But if I maybe watched a cowboy flick (or "The Way of the Gun") the night before then its my 1911.
Of course if I wake up feeling lazy, and have no dangerous places to visit, its my P-32
In all seriousness, either will do the job if you're proficient. I tailor my CCW piece more to the weather. During the summer, when the Texas uniform is shorts and a t-shirt then its the Glock (or my Bersa Thunder).
If its "winter" (I use that term loosely - right now its 76 here on Galveston), and bad guys might be more layered up, then its my 1911 (which is easier to conceal anyway under a jacket).
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
In a perfect world, fast and heavy; in the real world, fast and light.
seeker_two
Member
Medium to heavy weight & fast....
...and ACCURATELY PLACED.
...and ACCURATELY PLACED.
c22m22c
Member
i chose light and fast. as in 147gr 9mm hydro-shocks.
i can control 18+1 9mm's better than i can control 8+1 .45's.
but that's me.
i can control 18+1 9mm's better than i can control 8+1 .45's.
but that's me.
Yooper
Member
trapperjohn
Mass is a constant in the energy equation for a projectile, it loses no mass (theoretically) on its way to the target. Velocity is decreasing from the moment the projectile clears the barrel. Any value (energy in this case) which increases as the square of a variable (velocity) decreases as the square root of the variable. This is true when fired in any medium, sort of an "easy come-easy go" situation.
Mass is a constant in the energy equation for a projectile, it loses no mass (theoretically) on its way to the target. Velocity is decreasing from the moment the projectile clears the barrel. Any value (energy in this case) which increases as the square of a variable (velocity) decreases as the square root of the variable. This is true when fired in any medium, sort of an "easy come-easy go" situation.
happy old sailor
Member
other. middle ground. .41mag w/220s. this will do bad things up front and blow out a backbone. MO, as i have not done this, but, it sounds about right. any deer hunter will tell you that a one shot stop is seldom accomplished. whitetail deer are about the size of humans and can go a distance when well hit. regardless of caliber, as someone else said, shoot them to the ground. this sounds like good advice.
Sir Aardvark
Member
If I had my druthers......Heavy and Slow. A .44mag revolver with hard cast bullets could stop a bear!.
I have no interest in starting a flame war BUT... IIRC Fackler and the IWBA at one time published a news letter/journal of there findings? And also did they or did they not stop due to lack of support? Also, Didn't the IWBA Disband?
My distaste as it were for fackler and the like is based mainly on the fact that any time this subject comes up they take it personaly instead of from an objective POV and automaticly try to discredit anyone who disagrees with them. That said I do find both sides to have interesting findings.
Oh yea, For the record I carry an H&K P7M8 or USPc 9mm.
And yes I run 115 gr +P+ in all of my 9mm pistols. Not because of M&S but because of what agencies have carried it at one time or another.
ISP, Boarder Patrol, and U.S. Secret Service
Have a nice weekend
My distaste as it were for fackler and the like is based mainly on the fact that any time this subject comes up they take it personaly instead of from an objective POV and automaticly try to discredit anyone who disagrees with them. That said I do find both sides to have interesting findings.
Oh yea, For the record I carry an H&K P7M8 or USPc 9mm.
And yes I run 115 gr +P+ in all of my 9mm pistols. Not because of M&S but because of what agencies have carried it at one time or another.
ISP, Boarder Patrol, and U.S. Secret Service
Have a nice weekend
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