I started loading 30-06 for a recently restored M1917 Winchester sporter. I made an important mistake and loaded 10 rounds with the wrong charge. My data book says the minimum load for my 165gr Nosler partition is 55grains of IMR 4350. I read the wrong line and loaded five at 47 grains and 5 at 47.5 grains. For some reason I am having a very hard time pulling these down with my initertial puller. Can I safely shoot these?
Light load question
- Thread starter taybri
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Jim Watson
Member
Well, .30-06 isn't "overbore" and 4350 isn't a VERY slow powder, so the "detonation legend" should not apply.
edwardware
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47gr ilo of 55gr, I would shoot them. That charge might be low enough to be smokey and leave unburnt powder, but I doubt it.
I've played with 30%-60% charges of several extruded rifle powder other than 4895, and in general they're inconsistent and messy below 50%.
I've played with 30%-60% charges of several extruded rifle powder other than 4895, and in general they're inconsistent and messy below 50%.
tightgroup tiger
Member
I would buy a bullet puller, bullets are not cheap any more and they are getting hard to get like everything else. I have to buy a 30 bullet puller my self.
I will save the primed case and the bullet and the powder is old and will go by by.
I don't like wasting things and bullet pullers don't cost that much and you will have it to use for the rest of you life.
I will save the primed case and the bullet and the powder is old and will go by by.
I don't like wasting things and bullet pullers don't cost that much and you will have it to use for the rest of you life.
rdnktrkr
Member
I found a reduced load that was around 42 or 43gr with 150gr rn that was good at 100 yrds and very light recoil in a 700 BDL CD, it had unburned powder. I also load below minimum when loading 125gr for the Garand. I would shoot away at 100yrd targets and have fun.
The lowest I went was 51 grains of 4350 with a 200 grain bullet. Nothing bad happened. There is guidance around, rule of thumb, about where light charges become dangerous. I liked the overall theme of this post:
How far below the minimum powder charge is dangerous when reloading a rifle round?
https://www.quora.com/How-far-below...angerous-when-reloading-a-rifle-round?share=1
Jay Ven Horst, Gun shop owner and gun repair specialist
Answered Jul 22 2016 ·
Any time you load outside the manuals you risk blowing up a gun and causing serious injury to the shooter and bystanders, THE FOLLOWING IS NOT RECOMMEDED and is for information and debate only. There are reasons for reduced loads and there are reduced loads in the book, so I would recommend these instead of dropping below the minimum charge. First, the reason this is unsafe. When the powder level goes below the flash hole, the small hole in the webbing at the base between the primer and the powder. The flash from the primer can shoot over the top of the powder. Powder is designed to burn not explode. There are 2 theories about what happens when a gun blows up from a under charge, the first is the primer lights too large of a surface area across the top of the powder causing to much powder to burn at one time causing a catistrophic failure. The second is that the flame of the primer goes over the top and starts the front of the powder charge on fire and burns backward towards the bolt face reversing the intended shock wave causing once again a catastrophic failure. I say these are theories because they have failed to be duplicated in laboratories so can not be confirmed, but the experts say they have seen guns blown up from a reduced load. I have been reloading for 30 years been shooting for 36 years plus and have never seen one myself, seen several blown up from over charges, wrong powder, bullets stuck in barrel, etc. but none from a under charge but I bow to the experts. Once again, I DO NOT RECOMMEDED ANY LOADING NOT IN THE MANUAL! In the interest of quora’s information sharing, any load that covers the flash hole should preclude the failures discussed, HOWEVER, on a reduced load such as we are discussing, position of the case affects powders level in relation to the flash hole. Visuallize this, when you tilt the cartrige backward, all the powder is against the back of the cartrige, air gap between bullet and powder, “safe?” when you tit the cartrige forward, all the powder is against the bullet with a air gap at the back between primer and powder “Unsafe?” May cause hang fire or catistrophic failure. Now, worst case scenario, visualize the powner sitting at a angle in the case with level below flash hole in back tapering up towards front of case (bullet) causing a very similar situation to what was described in the powder level all the way across but below flash hole (UNSAFE!) Causing potential for catistrophic failure. I hope I have satisfied your curiosity but PLEASE, don't load outside the manual. If you want a reduced load, look around through the books or contact the powder manufacturers, they will get you a safe load with a bulky powder that will do what you want, if it is possible. Thanks for reading.
Mr Van Horst gives a logic and rationale I think is sound. There are recommendations not to go below certain volumetric levels also. Too much air space in a case is bad. I am of the opinion that 47 grains of IMR 4350 will not stick a bullet in the barrel, and there is not enough air space to be a problem for flash over.
Something else I would like to comment, the use of BlueDot in rifle cartridges. This is one character who advocates the use of Blue Dot in rifle cartridges, a poster named SeaFire. He has not blown up any rifles, but others have. The problem according to Alliant is that the Blue Dot pressure curve radically spikes with small changes in components in rifle cases. SeaFire does not have piezo electric pressure gauges, but Alliant does. And they can see, real time, the shape of the pressure curve. Alliant no longer recommends charges of any powders that show this instability. So as a general rule, it is better to stay within the charge recommendations in the manuals, and not to experiment outside of printed data. Unless you have your own pressure gages at home.
How far below the minimum powder charge is dangerous when reloading a rifle round?
https://www.quora.com/How-far-below...angerous-when-reloading-a-rifle-round?share=1
Jay Ven Horst, Gun shop owner and gun repair specialist
Answered Jul 22 2016 ·
Any time you load outside the manuals you risk blowing up a gun and causing serious injury to the shooter and bystanders, THE FOLLOWING IS NOT RECOMMEDED and is for information and debate only. There are reasons for reduced loads and there are reduced loads in the book, so I would recommend these instead of dropping below the minimum charge. First, the reason this is unsafe. When the powder level goes below the flash hole, the small hole in the webbing at the base between the primer and the powder. The flash from the primer can shoot over the top of the powder. Powder is designed to burn not explode. There are 2 theories about what happens when a gun blows up from a under charge, the first is the primer lights too large of a surface area across the top of the powder causing to much powder to burn at one time causing a catistrophic failure. The second is that the flame of the primer goes over the top and starts the front of the powder charge on fire and burns backward towards the bolt face reversing the intended shock wave causing once again a catastrophic failure. I say these are theories because they have failed to be duplicated in laboratories so can not be confirmed, but the experts say they have seen guns blown up from a reduced load. I have been reloading for 30 years been shooting for 36 years plus and have never seen one myself, seen several blown up from over charges, wrong powder, bullets stuck in barrel, etc. but none from a under charge but I bow to the experts. Once again, I DO NOT RECOMMEDED ANY LOADING NOT IN THE MANUAL! In the interest of quora’s information sharing, any load that covers the flash hole should preclude the failures discussed, HOWEVER, on a reduced load such as we are discussing, position of the case affects powders level in relation to the flash hole. Visuallize this, when you tilt the cartrige backward, all the powder is against the back of the cartrige, air gap between bullet and powder, “safe?” when you tit the cartrige forward, all the powder is against the bullet with a air gap at the back between primer and powder “Unsafe?” May cause hang fire or catistrophic failure. Now, worst case scenario, visualize the powner sitting at a angle in the case with level below flash hole in back tapering up towards front of case (bullet) causing a very similar situation to what was described in the powder level all the way across but below flash hole (UNSAFE!) Causing potential for catistrophic failure. I hope I have satisfied your curiosity but PLEASE, don't load outside the manual. If you want a reduced load, look around through the books or contact the powder manufacturers, they will get you a safe load with a bulky powder that will do what you want, if it is possible. Thanks for reading.
Mr Van Horst gives a logic and rationale I think is sound. There are recommendations not to go below certain volumetric levels also. Too much air space in a case is bad. I am of the opinion that 47 grains of IMR 4350 will not stick a bullet in the barrel, and there is not enough air space to be a problem for flash over.
Something else I would like to comment, the use of BlueDot in rifle cartridges. This is one character who advocates the use of Blue Dot in rifle cartridges, a poster named SeaFire. He has not blown up any rifles, but others have. The problem according to Alliant is that the Blue Dot pressure curve radically spikes with small changes in components in rifle cases. SeaFire does not have piezo electric pressure gauges, but Alliant does. And they can see, real time, the shape of the pressure curve. Alliant no longer recommends charges of any powders that show this instability. So as a general rule, it is better to stay within the charge recommendations in the manuals, and not to experiment outside of printed data. Unless you have your own pressure gages at home.
Jim Watson
Member
Really? Does the book say "MINIMUM Load" or "Starting Load?" Is the maximum load about 61 grains?
I shot lots of 168 Match bullets with 55.0 grs IMR 4350, but I would be surprised if it was listed as a minimum load. It was a great mid pressure load. I will say, I was blowing primers with 60 grs H4350 and a 150 grain Federal Fusion.
Leakage around the primers did this to the breech face of my Ruger #1
I will be cutting my 150 grain Federal Fusion loads down to 57 grains of IMR 4350 or H4350.
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