Light objects travelling at high velocity

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tallpine said,,,

"No, they can do an RTLS (Return To Launch Site). I don't remember the time window for this, or how they separate from the boosters."

hmph, never heard of this before

has it ever been proven to work?

i still say they need a survivable capsule

id put crew safety first

i don't believe that was done

they rely too much on everything working as expected

now 2 relatively simple problems have cost us 2 crews

what about the more complicated technologies involved?

well gee 2 out of 200, thats only a 1% failure rate

ok, i can accept that, nothing/noone is perfect

what % of our best and brightest have we wasted now?

they don't give you that number, do they?

wait, i'm going to get my tinfoil hat...

i hear helicopters... :what:

:D
 
RTLS (Return To Launch Site) involves separating from the SRB's at the normal time, then at a subsequent point turning the orbiter-ET stack around while still under thrust, and flying backward (into its own exhaust plume) as it uses the thrust to decelerate to a practical standstill. When the fuel in the ET is nearly exhausted, the shuttle cuts the engines, the stack goes into freefall, and the shuttle quickly separates from the ET and falls back into the atmosphere, hopefully gliding to a landing back at the Kennedy Space Center runway.

The tricky part is turning the shuttle around under thrust, flying backward (even though the air is extremely rarified, there may be some effect there), and separating from the ET under pressure and time constraints that usually aren't there.

The time window is also extremely short--they'd almost have had to have made the decision to abort within a minute or two of the foam strike, I'd suppose.
 
The California legislature should be pressing for a ban on foam based on its proven ability to knock the Space Shuttle out of the sky. Hey, it's actually BETTER logic than what they used to ban .50 caliber rifles.
 
well, you aint gettin ME on one of those things,,,

besides, the extra weight would cost too much more in fuel consumption...

:rolleyes:
 
Mr. Low Standards sez:

More glory dying in the biggest firecracker on earth (or in orbit) than from being runned over by a homeless person pushing a shopping cart.
 
I hope NASA doesn't say, "Well, it was the foam. Shame. We'll do better next time." and don't go any further. NASA opted to change to an enviro friendly adhesive formulation which was known at the time of conversaion to not be as effective as what was being replace.

If my life was on the line in a shuttle, I would care nothing of "enviro friendly" adhesive formulations. I would want something that would work every time.

Is it me or are we now discussing the number of people who die because of environmental restrictions. The space shuttle leaps to mind right behind the fire fighters who were burned to death because a helicopter pilot didn't want to risk sucking up some kind of bottom feeding endangered fish.
 
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/7/11/121741.shtml

Cause of Two Shuttle Disasters: Enviro Dogma
Hannes Hacker
Friday, July 11, 2003


Now that a dramatic new test has confirmed that a piece of thermal insulation flaking off of space shuttle Columbia's external tank during launch was the most likely cause of its destruction during re-entry, the typical second-guessing in the press has focused on NASA engineers, asking: "What did Mission Control know, and when did they know it?"

Somehow, NASA engineers should have guessed about the damage done to Columbia's thermal tiles and pulled an Apollo 13-style rabbit out of their hat. The implication is that they should have been omniscient and omnipotent.

Having heroes like NASA's mission controllers around to quietly brave the world's criticism certainly serves to divert attention from those who have done the most to contribute to this disaster, and who regard themselves as omniscient and omnipotent enough to command the entire American economy and the lives of its citizens: the environmentalists.

Why did the shuttle's foam insulation flake off? In response to an edict from the EPA, NASA was required to change the design of the thermal insulating foam on the shuttle's external tank. They stopped using Freon, or CFC-11, to comply with the 1987 Montreal Protocol, an agreement designed to head off doubtful prognostications of an environmental disaster.

But it was the elimination of the old foam that led to a real disaster for the shuttle program.

The maiden flight with the new foam, in 1997, resulted in a 10-fold increase to foam-induced tile damage. The new foam was far more dangerous than the old foam.

But NASA, a government organization afraid of antagonizing powerful political interests, did not reject the EPA's demands and thoroughly reverse the fatal decision. Instead, they sought a compromise by applying for a waiver from the EPA that allowed them to use the old foam on some parts of the external tank.

NASA notes that it is impossible to ascertain with certainty whether it was the old or the new foam that caused the recent disaster, and environmentalists will no doubt say this means that we can't pin the disaster on them. But any unnecessary increase in risk in an enterprise so unforgiving of error, is unacceptable.

P.C. Junk 'Science' Trumps Engineering

The bottom line is that NASA took a much greater risk to comply with EPA demands. Environmentalist junk science trumped sound engineering.

This is not the first time that has happened. The cause of the 1986 Challenger explosion is officially established as hot gases burning through an O-ring joint in one of the solid-rocket boosters. NASA was roundly criticized for its decision to launch in cold weather over the objection of some engineers, but there was a deeper cause that was not as widely reported.

In 1985 NASA had switched to a new putty to seal the O-ring joints. The new putty became brittle at cold temperatures, thus allowing Dr. Richard Feynman to teach NASA a famous lesson. At the congressional hearing investigating the accident, he simply placed some of the O-ring putty in a glass of ice water and crumbled it in his fingers.

NASA had changed the sealant because its original supplier for O-ring putty stopped producing it for fear of anti-asbestos lawsuits.

No Lessons Learned From the Challenger Disaster

Had NASA not run out of the original putty, the Challenger disaster would not have happened. Indeed, when the Air Force ran out of the same putty and replaced it with the same brittle substitute, their Titan 34D heavy-lift boosters suffered two sudden launch failures, after a string of successes that had lasted as long as that of the space shuttle.

These accidents are not primarily the fault of careless engineers, nor are they merely the unintended consequences of bureaucrats blindly following federal rules. They are the result of a philosophy that hold human needs, such as the need for a safe shuttle launch or re-entry, as less important than a concern to preserve the purity of nature from the products of industrial civilization, such as CFCs and asbestos insulation.

Al Gore's Twisted Dream

Had 2000 presidential candidate Al Gore had his way, Columbia's last mission would have carried a spacecraft called Triana into space. Triana was meant to beam continuous images, via the Internet, of a very small Earth as seen from a point between Earth and the sun.

The idea was to convey the message of how small and fragile the Earth is, and consequently how small man is, compared to the vastness of space.

That's the theory: Man is small and should sacrifice for vast nature. The practice? Fourteen dead astronauts.
 
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